Fingerprinting in pubs

[DaBouncer]

The powers that be are exaggerating the dangers we are in as we go about our daily lives and using this to bring unneccessary controls into play and you are falling for it.

I'm not "falling" for anything.

I have worked in the industry which this new peice of kit will directly affect and greatly improve and therefore am probably best suited to give a more informed opinion on it's advantages.

 

Now I'll admit I'm probably not best fit to discuss it's disadvantages but as far as I'm concerned this kit willmake the public and security staff safer and as such I welcome it.

[Darbees]

I'm not "falling" for anything.

I have worked in the industry which this new peice of kit will directly affect and greatly improve and therefore am probably best suited to give a more informed opinion on it's advantages.

 

Now I'll admit I'm probably not best fit to discuss it's disadvantages but as far as I'm concerned this kit willmake the public and security staff safer and as such I welcome it.

I presume the "industry" you mean is securing nightclubs. I'm sure that having access to this sort of information would help all kinds of "industries" but it is wide open to abuse and is inappropriate. If you were allowed to strip search customers it would help with the drugs problems in some clubs, should you have that power? Unfortunately you are not more suited to give that informed opinion any more than I am.

[Cyclone]

The difference with a lineup is that you don't get taken court if the 'wrong' person is picked, with fingerprints you will be.

[DaBouncer]

I presume the "industry" you mean is securing nightclubs. I'm sure that having access to this sort of information would help all kinds of "industries" but it is wide open to abuse and is inappropriate. If you were allowed to strip search customers it would help with the drugs problems in some clubs, should you have that power? Unfortunately you are not more suited to give that informed opinion any more than I am.

Well I am more suited to give an informed opinion than you are, but I am not more sutied to give an opinion.

I'm sure that's what you were getting at.

 

If you had read my earlier statements (posted above) regarding who controls this information and who has access to adding data to it and reading what it contains then you'd know I'd be opposed to anyone other than local (or even national) police services having this level of access.

 

The way I see it, all the system needs to do is flag up a suspected troublemaker by either an audiable or visual signal which then indicates to the door personnel and club manager that this individual is barred under the scheme. It shouldn't actually come up with (and I doubt it will) the name, picture, address and previous offences of the person involved.

 

If the person onbjects then they take it up with the local police service.

Like I say in my capacity of having worked in the security industry then I feel this technology will be very well suited and I have no problem going into venues which adopt it.

[DaBouncer]

The difference with a lineup is that you don't get taken court if the 'wrong' person is picked, with fingerprints you will be.

Maybe so... or maybe you're investigated further but that is a particular scenario I wouldn't like to give an opinion on as I don't know enough on the subject.

[Darbees]

Well I am more suited to give an informed opinion than you are, but I am not more sutied to give an opinion.

I'm sure that's what you were getting at.

 

It's only informed opinion of what goes on at the door of nightclubs and not on the subject of informed opinion about civil liberties to which I don't profess to be an expert any more than you are.

 

What is the scenario in which the database you would use, holds fingerprint information? Is it the police database of fingerprints in which case you may not let anyone in who has ever been fingerprinted. The police retain fingerprints of people after the dates of rehabilitation of offenders act date has been passed. Does this mean that people who have been arrested guilty or not will not be allowed into clubs?

 

The other scenario is where the club collects print info, so should I go along wearing the wrong type of clothing and be refused entry, argue with the doorman that the rules are ridiculous, will I then get fingerprinted and refused entry to all other clubs forever?

[Cyclone]

It's only informed opinion of what goes on at the door of nightclubs and not on the subject of informed opinion about civil liberties to which I don't profess to be an expert any more than you are.

 

What is the scenario in which the database you would use, holds fingerprint information? Is it the police database of fingerprints in which case you may not let anyone in who has ever been fingerprinted. The police retain fingerprints of people after the dates of rehabilitation of offenders act date has been passed. Does this mean that people who have been arrested guilty or not will not be allowed into clubs?

 

The other scenario is where the club collects print info, so should I go along wearing the wrong type of clothing and be refused entry, argue with the doorman that the rules are ridiculous, will I then get fingerprinted and refused entry to all other clubs forever?

 

It would require new legislation for doormen to be able to force you to give up any details, which does include your fingerprints.

 

So this scenario at the moment at least is unlikely. Presently only the police could legally take your fingerprints after charging you and then enter them in the system.

[DaBouncer]

Well if you read the article rather than jumping to conclusions as well as reading my posts you will understand where I am coming from.

 

The system is in place to STOP KNOWN trouble makers of clubs / pubs and bars. It's not going to be designed AFAIK to stop people with criminal records, wearing the wrong clothes, arguing with the doorstaff.

The people who control the database who I think will be the police or some official governing organisation (but I feel it will be the police) will decide who goes on and who goes off.

 

It's designed to stop something before it has the potential to begin.

I doubt it will COLLECT information... but it will more than likely link to a central polic database of certain trouble making individuals.

 

To collect the information eveyone would need to be having names, pictures and other info taken on the doors of Sheffield which is a mammoth task which just wont happen.

 

It's not big brother collecting your info... it's about big brother using the info it already has to make your night a more pleasant one. Which as it happens YES I do have more of an informed opinion on and never proclaimed to have more knowledge than anyone else of civil liberties.

[DaBouncer]

It would require new legislation for doormen to be able to force you to give up any details, which does include your fingerprints.

 

So this scenario at the moment at least is unlikely. Presently only the police could legally take your fingerprints after charging you and then enter them in the system.

Correct and this I highly doubt would happen... ever.

[Darbees]

It would require new legislation for doormen to be able to force you to give up any details, which does include your fingerprints.

 

So this scenario at the moment at least is unlikely. Presently only the police could legally take your fingerprints after charging you and then enter them in the system.

Yes and so on that basis the club wouldn't know why your dabs were on the database and so they would bar anyone it flagged up. The police do however take your prints if you are arrested regardless of whether they have charged you and they do not destroy them, I know this for a fact because it's happened to me. They are also collecting DNA for same reason. To provide clubs with this info is quite ridiculous and would be stopped if anyone took it up as a human rights issue.