The state of sheffield clubbing

[Matt S]

This is a beauty of a thread..

I'd really like redrobbo to answer the question with regards to advertising space.. Why is it that punitive actions against flyering are seen as the solution rather than support.. Expensive promotion = Expensive tickets/drinks... The majority of venues in town are not out to make millions, it's about the city and following the events of the last few days the city's night life needs to be nurtured otherwise it's going to go stale..

[redrobbo]

Any chance of actually discussing the billboard point. Billboard advertising will certainly reduce the amount of flyers I get produced (and I guess other promoters too) . But I wont be chucked over a barrel by the Council's chosen partner for postering in the city. Its obscene the amount of cash that they ask to do the job. They (Space) may reply that it is the council that charge them for the space provided , in which case the 'untidy streets' issue drops back on council's desk. Charge less for the advertising space>Promoters get charged less for advertising (legally) in the city > Therefore there is less need for flyers on the city's footpaths...its not rocket science is it?

 

Btw redrobbo, you side stepped Green's comment like a politician.

 

Apologies dimitrysoul for overlooking this aspect of the post by green.....

 

 

Redrobbo --- one point for the council thou. Whilst we are still (here at Plug) trying to ascertain the new council policy of flyering, if, as we are being led to believe, we have to pay to flyer a specific place, this will crucify new promoters and only lead the bigger venues in the city having all the marketing powers. Which incidently is exactly what happened to the billboards in this city, with one company Space Advertising, having the whole market and charging abhorrant prices! Nobody other than City Hall can afford to pay JCDecaux (spelling ?!?).

 

This is something that needs to be addressed immediately, and we are struggling to find anyone within the council to assist us to hear our comments.

 

Can you advise???

 

..... If you wish to make a comment to the council, I suggest you contact -

 

Cllr Bryan Lodge

Cabinet Member for Streetscene & Green Spaces

Town Hall

Surrey Street

Sheffield

S1 2HH

[redrobbo]

Lots of points to answer. I'll try my best to do so.

 

Agreed they aren't. But what they can do is allow some more purpose built venues or allow existing empty buildings to be converted to smaller and medium sized venues (say up to about 500 capacity max)

 

You have deliberately misquoted me. In previous threads i've suggested that promoters are to blame for not bringing big name dj's in because of the problems they have promoting events effectively. For all your innocence and wide eyed 'don't blame us' attitude the council ultimately have to take some responsibility for the amount of venues in this city if not them then who else?

 

And you've misquoted me again. I'm not saying the council should promote nights i'm simply saying there aren't enough good venues in the city. It shouldn't matter that we've lost 3 venues this weekend, there should be enough venues to pick up the slack but there isn't. DQ can only do so much, i'll be surprised if plug take any nights because i was under the impression they wanted all their nights in house. So where can these nights go? I realise the council don't give a crap but 18-30 year olds pay council tax too.

 

I could go on and on but i'm a bit busy so i'll return to this later. In the meantime feel free to continue!

 

I haven't at all "deliberately misquoted" discodown. I quoted posts by discodown made on other threads to demonstrate that he was elsewhere clearly stating that promoters are responsible for venues - and not the city council, which is what he claimed on this thread.

 

Now discodown claims that the council should be finding venues for promoters......"But what they {the council} can do is allow some more purpose built venues or allow existing empty buildings to be converted to smaller and medium sized venues (say up to about 500 capacity max)."

 

The council is not responsible for promotions, and the council is not responsible for venues - be they purpose built or adapted empty buildings. If a promoter wishes to build a new venue, or adapt an empty building for a smaller or medium sized clubbing venue, all they have to do is buy either the land or building, and submit a planning permission.

 

Why should the council take the "ultimate responsiblility" for providing clubbing venues? Does the council also have the "ultimate responsibility" for the number of cinemas or pubs in the city? Or even the number of stray cats and dogs homes in the city? Of course not. discodown's claim just doesn't stand up to critical examination.

 

If the demand for clubbing venues is so great, then it only takes a promoter or a businessman to come forward and fill the gap. Or, why not form a

co-operative, and start your own clubbing venue discodown? It's been done before, e.g., the successful gay Nightingales club in Birmingham.

[redrobbo]

hmm, its all the councils fault?

 

yes and no-

 

The situation at pravda/fez/earl, is not directly linked to the council. but they do have significant responsibility for the state of sheffield nightlife in general and i do think that they undervalue the importance of a diverse and vibrant nightime economy.

 

prices for public entertainment licenses here are significantly greater than in comparable cities (ever wondered why leeds has more dedicated live music venues?)

 

the council are particularly keen on following up complaints of noise polloution, yet continue to give planning permission for city centre living appartments in unsuitable locations.

 

also due to lax planning restrictions, land in the centre is far more profitable as student accomadation than it could ever be with a club (anyone remember the music factory/bed?) (anyone remember the historically important bit, 'mysteriously' and 'accidently' burning down during redevelopment?)

 

red tape and buereacracy in general continue to stiffle enterprise and discourage new players in the industry.

 

the issue of one company having a monopoly over billboard advertising is also an important one, that again raises the level of investment required to enter the market.

 

i believe that there also needs to be more transparency in the decision making process of the council, they need to be more accountable for the decisions they take and there needs to be less mutual scratching of property developers backs!

 

i think the future's bleak for traditional clubs, especially when the smoking ban is introduced (something we can blame on central government not sheffo council!). late bars are where the action will be at, thats if more planning and license applications are granted.

 

if licenses are hard to come by, and again compared to other cities i think sheffield lags behind. i think you ll see clubing and nighlife going full circle...

back to the underground, unlicensed venues, winks and nudges, out of the mainstream (which might not be a bad thing). if or when this happens the blame will surely lie with sheffield council.

 

The decision making processes of the council are transparent Tuffty. Planning applications are advertised, and the reports of planning applications are available on the council's website - which even include copies of any letters of any objections received. Planning Board meetings are open to the public, and objectors can address the Planning Board in person. Planning Board members are not whipped, nor are they subject to any political party influence as they are completely independent of any party allegiance in planning matters.

 

Licenses are not "hard to come by". Any license application must fit the criteria for planning, and meet the four core elements of any licensed premise under the Licensing Act 2003, e.g., noise abatement, protection of children, etc. This applies as much to clubs as it does to pubs, licensed restaurants, off licenses, garages which sell alcohol, supermarkets, and late night hot food takeways. If Sheffield is lagging behind places like Leeds in licensed clubs (incidentally, a much bigger city than Sheffield), it's not because of licenses being "hard to come by" - it's because promoters and the owners of venues are not making the necessary license applications.

[discodown]

I haven't at all "deliberately misquoted" discodown. I quoted posts by discodown made on other threads to demonstrate that he was elsewhere clearly stating that promoters are responsible for venues - and not the city council, which is what he claimed on this thread.

 

Now discodown claims that the council should be finding venues for promoters......"But what they {the council} can do is allow some more purpose built venues or allow existing empty buildings to be converted to smaller and medium sized venues (say up to about 500 capacity max)."

 

The council is not responsible for promotions, and the council is not responsible for venues - be they purpose built or adapted empty buildings. If a promoter wishes to build a new venue, or adapt an empty building for a smaller or medium sized clubbing venue, all they have to do is buy either the land or building, and submit a planning permission.

 

Why should the council take the "ultimate responsiblility" for providing clubbing venues? Does the council also have the "ultimate responsibility" for the number of cinemas or pubs in the city? Or even the number of stray cats and dogs homes in the city? Of course not. discodown's claim just doesn't stand up to critical examination.

 

If the demand for clubbing venues is so great, then it only takes a promoter or a businessman to come forward and fill the gap. Or, why not form a

co-operative, and start your own clubbing venue discodown? It's been done before, e.g., the successful gay Nightingales club in Birmingham.

Theres no wonder you're on the council. You refuse to take even a small amount of responsibility for anything claiming "its not us, its the promoters, the venue owners, the entrepreneurs, the man on the grassy knoll!"

 

Nowhere have i ever said that promoters are responsible for the provision of venues. Promoters promote, hence the name. Very often they don't own or run the building. My point is there aren't enough venues and its up to the council to provide them. Various promoters and people in the industry have asked questions about flyering and you've fobbed them off. you're now sidestepping an accusation. The council are responsible one way or another for venues in this city. They provide licenses, they liase with police and venue owners to try to make venues safe, they make stupid laws that prevents promoters promoting effectively.

 

I look at leeds or manchester or liverpool and i'm shocked by the amount of choice that there is. Why can't sheffield be the same? I stand by my previous statement.

 

its a disgrace the way the council chokes the life out of the club scene.

[redrobbo]

This is a beauty of a thread..

I'd really like redrobbo to answer the question with regards to advertising space.. Why is it that punitive actions against flyering are seen as the solution rather than support.. Expensive promotion = Expensive tickets/drinks... The majority of venues in town are not out to make millions, it's about the city and following the events of the last few days the city's night life needs to be nurtured otherwise it's going to go stale..

 

The council has engaged with club promoters over the problem of littering arising from unwanted flyers being thrown away on the streets. All attempts to control this problem have come to naught. Cleaning the city centre streets of unwanted litter costs council taypayers money. Littering is amongst the top nuisance issues over which the public make complaints to the council.

 

Sheffield is not alone amongst councils which are taking advantage of new legislation which will now control flyering within their city centres. You are quite correct matt_steer, it is "about the city". It's all about keeping our streets and pavements cleaner, and free of unwanted flyers.

[discodown]

Cleaning the city centre streets of unwanted litter costs council taypayers money. Littering is amongst the top nuisance issues over which the public make complaints to the council.

 

Sheffield is not alone amongst councils which are taking advantage of new legislation which will now control flyering within their city centres. You are quite correct matt_steer, it is "about the city". It's all about keeping our streets and pavements cleaner, and free of unwanted flyers.

in other words we can make a few a quid or avoid spending a few quid.

[redrobbo]

Various promoters and people in the industry have asked questions about flyering and you've fobbed them off.

 

I've fobbed no-one off discodown. You made this claim a few minutes ahead of my reply to the posters who asked me questions about flyering and associated litter problems.

 

We clearly disagree over whether the council does or does not have responsibility for providing clubbing venues in the city, but discodown, I've now answered five points raised with me on this thread. That's hardly fobbing anyone off, surely?

[redrobbo]

in other words we can make a few a quid or avoid spending a few quid.

 

Do I interpet this observation as meaning you are in favour of the city centre streets being constantly littered with unwanted flyers?

Would you please clarify your comment.

[Smithster]

Discodown, you make some very valid points. But your claim that it is ultimately the responsibility of the council to provide venues is somewhat off the mark I'm afraid. The council can only react to any license applications they receive, so if they don't receive any, what can they do about it? The council themselves are not going to front up the funds to buy a venue, re-furbish it and then run it as a profitable business - that is not in their remit. And with regards to making venues available, there are an awful lot of derelict buildings in this city that could be used if an investor came forward with plans for them. If those plans are not forthcoming, there really isn't a lot the council can do.

 

Ultimately, the repsonisbility lies with potential investors, and I know from first hand experience that Sheffield Council are always looking to do everything they can to attract potential investors to the city. My own company moved it's offices to Sheffield purely because of the reduced rent offered as an incentive to bring new business and investment in to the city.