Employment law. Help needed.

[rothschild]

Hi everybody. I am hoping I can get some sensible advice here. I have 2 issues to discuss.

(1) I have worked for my present company for the past 15 years......since the "birth" of the company. I work part time on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. I am paid pro-rata for bank holidays. Seeing as most bank holidays fall on a Monday and I don't work Mondays, I have allways been allowed to take the day on another day. I have also been given the option of either "standing" to the extra time required to make up a full day or using some of my annual holiday entitlement in order to make up a full days pay. I have allways "stood" to the extra time. It has suited me because effectively this gives me extra time off. About 6 years ago we employed another part time worker and this person allways works Mondays. She has consistently moaned that she loses out everytime there is a bank holiday Monday. She has been given three options. Either "stand" to the extra time, or use some of her annual holiday entitlement to make her time up, or to change her working day from Monday to Wednesday (she doesn't work Wednesdays) just for that week. None of these options suit her.

Now I find out that I am suddenly expected to make my time up out of my annual leave in order to make this other person feel not so "aggrieved"! In fact this was done to me while I was on holiday without my permission and without any consultation. This whole matter is supposed to be under consultation anyhow, but since going back to work after my holidays, management have avoided me totally which tells me that they have made their minds up and I have no say in it at all!!

My question is......can they do this?? I was quite happy with the way things have been for me, and management never had any complaints. From my point of view, if they have decided to make these changes without my approval, then they are unfavourable to me personally. All input welcome here.

 

(2)......second issue is one concerning long service awards. For the past few years or so I have been trying to persuade management that rewarding long service would be a good idea. Especially as most forward thinking companies do this nowadays. The last time I approached them was about 2 months ago. I was told that because of new legislation due to come in, it would become illegal to reward long service because it would be discriminatory against anybody that had just joined the company, because they wouldn't have been there long enough to accrue any length of service!! WHAT?????? Has the whole world gone bonkers?

Regardless......apparantly, on my non-working day last week a long service "bonus" was declared. For those that had worked for the company for 10 years, they will receive the handsome bonus of an extra "half days holiday"!! For those daft enough to be with the company for 15 years, they will get one whole days extra holiday!! Whoopeeeee do daaaaaaa. That means me then.........or so I thought! BUT......nobody has officially told ME that I will qualify for a days extra leave. What everybody ELSE has told me is that I won't get it because I HAVE'NT worked for the company for 15 years!!!! NOTE:- the entire workforce know this.....but not me!

Mmmmmmmmm......I seem to remember starting in 1991........but then I remembered being told that I have only been on the books since 1993!! My few remaining long term work collegues can vouch for the fact that I was working for this company in 1991. I was paid in cash as was everybody else. It was my first job after being at home for several years raising my family. In fact the company was so happy to have me on board that my hours were tailored around my children and husband. I worked a few hours a day for 5 days a week......and also late into the nights at home. When the kids were on school holidays my time was spent working at home.In fact, when I think back they probably thought I would be grateful for anything because it fell in with my "family" lifestyle.......and I suppose they were right as well. I never for one minute thought I might be breaking the law though! I am still not sure if I was or not?? I do remember there being some trouble concerning them employing a person that was on "the sick"! I think it must have been after this that they put me "on the books"!! BUT.....I did not willingly or knowingly break any laws! I truly didn't know that they were scamming! I must have asked questions at the time and been fed a load of bull. Regardless......I did work for this company 15 years ago and now I feel very angry that I was used. What do I do?? I don't care about their insulting "long service" award. To them the half a day that I am told I won't get is worth £15.93! Is that all I am worth?? Ok.....it is newish management. My old and now retired boss would never have treated me so cheaply.

I have worked my knuckles down to the bone for this company and for what? I have helped put them on the map and they really don't deserve me. My house was used like a warehouse at one time because the small unit that we operated out of wasn't big enough to store the goods in. Oh the tales I could tell you. It hurts me so much to see such loyalty and hard work rewarded so shabbily.

I need some help now. I need to fight my corner on both of these issues. A few years ago it wouldn't have been an issue but nowadays I feel I am getting just a bit too old to have to stand up on my own and be counted. Hubby tells me to just walk out......but that is not my style. I may be down but I am not out......yet!! Grrrrrrr.

All thoughts and help will be welcome......but please be gentle with me. I am feeling a bit fragile just now.

[happyhippy]

Point 1. I'm not convinced that you can ask for the same rights with regard to Bank holidays, because you don't *work* on days which usually are as such (Monday or Friday). As these are outside of your normal pattern of work, you can't reasonably expect someone else who does, to give you lee way.

 

I'll dig you up a link, and then think about point 2 .......

 

[edit] but then you're pro rata aren't you ....... bugger, I'll have to rethink .....

[rothschild]

However......I do have the same rights... as regards to anybody else that gets paid for the bank holidays. The company pays full time workers for the bank holidays, which means that they also have to pay me the pro-rata rate. This isn't the issue. I am getting paid for my bank holidays despite the fact that I don't actually work on Mondays or Fridays.

The issue here is that I work a 6 hour day. My bank holiday rate is only 3.5 hours per day. It has been long accepted that when I choose to use a "bank holiday" day then I have the choice to either stand to the extra time or use some of my annual leave to make the hours up. I have allways chosen to stand to the time and that has allways been acceptable.

I am not really gaining anything here. I am only getting exactly the same amount of hours as our other part time worker. The only difference is that whereas she works on Mondays, she has to have that day off when it is a bank holiday. I dont work on Mondays so I can save mine for whenever I want to take them. She has been offered the option to change her working day when there is a bank holiday and she has refused. She wants her cake and she wants to eat it as well!!

I would love it if my company said to me that they were paying me a pro-rata rate for a bank holiday, but they felt that was unfair and decided to pay me a full day! That isn't going to happen though.......not this year anyhow.....but watch this space because it is coming!

My grouch is that why should my work practice alter because of another part timers whinging! SHE doesnt want to alter what she does......so I have to?? My work practice has been around a long time before she worked for us.

Now because of one person who feels aggrieved.....(oh I forgot to mention....one of our many managing directors has also gone part time and works Mondays)....I am expected to alter what has been my normal work practice?

Nobody is giving lee way to me, and neither would I expect them to. My bank holiday rights have been established for many years now and I have been happy with the arrangement. What I am not happy with is the recent proposals which will favour me less.

[Missdan]

Bank Holidays are at the descretion of the company. You could argue custom & practice and of course negotiation, but my company changed Bank holiday regs a while ago and we had to go along with it. As for long service, I would have thought that it went on how long you have actually had a contract with the company and not from the date you said you started, unless you did have a contract then. Being paid by cash, was it cash in hand and no pay slip? if so if you went to a tribunal you wouldn't have a leg to stgand on. You can get employment advice from The Sheffield Law Centre, Howells solicitors and ACAS. if you want to check you points in depth

[Cyclone]

why don't you ask your boss for a meeting and actually get confirmation of these things, from what you've said it's not actually official yet and things may not be exactly as you've been told (due to chinese whispers).

[willo]

do you have a contract of employment? if so i'm not sure they can change it with out consulting you.as 2 the date you started with the company, if you got any kind of payslip:- ie paid tax- ect, the inland revenue will have a record [see my post-british steel tinsley park] as will the dep't of work & pensions.you might wanna see the citizens advice people to see where you stand.

[Ms Macbeth]

Use a time sheet where you log your hours. So if a full time person works 37 hours, half time would be 18.5 hours, yes? When it is a bank holiday Monday, the person working at the beginning of the week would log 3.7 hours for Mon and 7.4 hours for Tues (full day) and 3.7 hours for Wed am. This would mean that for actually working 1.5 days, she is logging 2 full days - so gains half a day. But she actually had a full 'working' day off - Bank Holiday Monday.

You would log 3.7 hrs for Monday also, then 3.7 for Wed half day, 7.4 for Thurs & Fri. So for working 2.5 days you will get 3 days. You didn't have a 'working day' off. Same if the bank holiday falls on any other day, Thurs or Fri for instance (could be Christmas/New Year) you would both log 3.7 hours for the day whether its part of your working week or not. So where a full time person has a full day off for bank holiday, you both get half a day to be taken as leave along with normal leave. It might appear that the person working at the beginning of the week is worse off - but she hasn't worked on one of her normal days - but only loses half a day.

 

I job share exactly half a week and this is how it works for us - I work the end of the week but log half a day on a Monday bank holiday. When I used to work 4 days, I would log 1/5 of a days hours on a bank holiday - whether it was my work day or not. I'm not sure how clearly I've written this, but if you keep a log of your hours, and fill it in as suggested you'll see it works!

[Cyclone]

I don't think that was the OP's problem though. It seems that they have previously done something like that, but when she came to take the half day owed, she could have a full day off, and work the extra hours the week after.

I think it says, that now she won't be allowed to do that and will have to use annual leave to make the full day up, instead of time in lieu.