nick2 Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Scenario 2: child keeps eating mud Tricky Soln: forcibly separate child and mud Cyclone soln: refuse to provide him with....... cuttlery ?
banesmabes Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Scoop when was the last time that society as a whole thought it was ok for a man to beat a woman? How can you even compare that with a way of disciplining a child. Adults Do know right from wrong and there is a bit of a difference between domestic abuse and trying to find a harmless way to discipline a child. . I think this shows a lack of knowledge about women's place in society until not very long ago. It certainly was accepted that a man could hit his wife if she behaved in a way he did not approve. This behaviour is still condoned within Muslim societies, though our society has only recently decided this is unacceptable. Did you know for instance that it is less than 20 years since it became illegal for a man to rape his wife?
banesmabes Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 For much the same reasons as they're not treated like adults in any other way. So what would you say if I smacked an elderly person with dementia, because they don't realise their behaviour is wrong, they don't respond to reasoning, or they are doing something that could potentially harm themselves. Would that be acceptable?
Tricky Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 So what would you say if I smacked an elderly person with dementia, because they don't realise their behaviour is wrong, they don't respond to reasoning, or they are doing something that could potentially harm themselves. Would that be acceptable? How on earth do expect someone with dementia to learn a lesson, however you administer it?
Cyclone Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Sorry, I missed this gem. This only works if you can provide something that they want at the time of the incident. They don't 'soon get the idea'; they are 2 year-old children, not Pavlovs dogs. If there is anyone on this thread who lacks imagination, it is you as you clearly have no idea what toddlers are capable of. Scenario 1: child runs away and into road. Tricky Soln: restrain child Cyclone soln: refuse to provide him with....(what? I've no idea) No need to punish the child, yes restraining (if you want to call it that with a two year old) would be correct. Scenario 2: child keeps eating mud Tricky Soln: forcibly separate child and mud Cyclone soln: refuse to provide him with....... Let them eat mud, they'll soon learn that it makes them ill. Scenario 3: Child repeatedly headbuts television screen while screaming. Tricky Soln: restrain child Cyclone soln: refuse to provide him with....... What sort of two year old do you have, possibly one possessed by satan? Scenario 4: Child runs away in Sainsburys during packing and procedes to swing on the automatic doors, getting in everyone's way and soon breaking it. Tricky Soln: forcibly remove child from door Cyclone soln: refuse to provide him with....... How about controlling them in the first place and having them sat in the trolley, or being carried. You did say 2 right? Scenario 5: Child refuses to sit on naughty step Tricky Soln: Shut child in room for a Time-out Cyclone soln: refuse to provide him with....... Whatever, toys, television. it would depend on why you've told them to go to the naughty step. etc. Incidently, I have never smacked my son, but having been through the escalation of cajoling, bribes, commands, threats, withdrawn privileges, naughty step, time-out and sorted out the devastation of his room with books having been hurled and ripped, drawers overturned and wallpaper torn and him in a state of hysteria, I often wondered whether a quick smack wouldn't have been the better option. We seem to be past that phase now, thankfully. I have 2 nieces, and despite one being over and the other under 2, i've never seen any of the behaviour that you suggest. Nor would I call picking up a toddler, 'restraining', although if you wish to characterise it like that you go ahead. Some other scenarios. Child throws cutlery on floor, consequence, childs dinner taken away. Child screams, child gets no attention. Child throws toy around, toy is removed. Child refuses to sit on naughty step, time on step doubled. I reckon I could win on this one if it took all day and night, i'm sure i have more perceverance(sp) than a two year old. Child eats mud, child gets sick (why would i need to intervene, it's a natural consequence). Child goes to run into road, rescue child, punish self for allowing child to run around on pavement?
nick2 Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Child eats mud, child gets sick (why would i need to intervene, it's a natural consequence). Child starts vomiting - ignore child (just after attention) Child has temperature - give child cold shower Child falls unconsious - place child on naughtly stair Child dies form bacterial infection - blame partner
Tricky Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 No need to punish the child, yes restraining (if you want to call it that with a two year old) would be correct. i.e. using physical force and not refusing to provide something. Let them eat mud, they'll soon learn that it makes them ill. Wiil they? How soon? How ill? What sort of two year old do you have, possibly one possessed by satan? A fairly normal one really. Headbutting things is very common, if it was a wall or the floor we let him carry on. How about controlling them in the first place and having them sat in the trolley, or being carried. You did say 2 right? How do you carry a two year-old and pack your shopping? What if the child screams until he's let out of the trolley and you let him on the condition he's good? Whatever, toys, television. it would depend on why you've told them to go to the naughty step. How does this help, he's already lost those as he's on the naughty step I have 2 nieces, and despite one being over and the other under 2, i've never seen any of the behaviour that you suggest. Ask their parents about it; mine was rarely bad in company. Nor would I call picking up a toddler, 'restraining', although if you wish to characterise it like that you go ahead. Why wouldn't you? He'll be screaming, his legs will be going at 90mph and he'll be flailing his arms; this is not a quality moment together. Some other scenarios. Child throws cutlery on floor, consequence, childs dinner taken away. Getting them to eat anything in the first place is a minor miracle and now your volatile 2 year old is tired and hungry. Child screams, child gets no attention. Child throws toy around, toy is removed. Yep, agreed. Wouldn't it be great if that was the end of the matter. Child refuses to sit on naughty step, time on step doubled. I reckon I could win on this one if it took all day and night, i'm sure i have more perceverance(sp) than a two year old. And you think people who smack are cruel? ...Child goes to run into road, rescue child, punish self for allowing child to run around on pavement? It would be great to be an octopus
fox20thc Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 Child has temperature - give child cold showerr My GP told me to strip my child naked and stand him in the garden.... IN DECEMBER!
Tricky Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 My GP told me to strip my child naked and stand him in the garden.... IN DECEMBER! I bet he didn't complain after that. "No mum I'm fine honest, please can I go to school now."
funkymiss Posted September 22, 2006 Posted September 22, 2006 I think this shows a lack of knowledge about women's place in society until not very long ago. It certainly was accepted that a man could hit his wife if she behaved in a way he did not approve. This behaviour is still condoned within Muslim societies, though our society has only recently decided this is unacceptable. Did you know for instance that it is less than 20 years since it became illegal for a man to rape his wife? No I didn't know any of that banesmabes, that's why I asked. I don't claim to know much about women's history. I just think there is a huge difference between a man raping or hitting a woman and a parent giving their child a tap on the hand when they've been really naughty. I understand not everyone agrees. Why do people have to see it in such extremes? Of course there are extreme cases (such as those in the prog), and of course I disagree with them but in most cases we are talking occasional, last resort incidents. There is a middle ground and I think parents have a right to that without being judged as bullies or idiots. There are several different issue here- smacking, child abuse and domestic violence and I think it's dangerous to confuse them. Of course child abuse is not acceptable! I don't really want to reply anymore as people are trying to manipulate my views when I've made them clear
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