Davstar Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Schumacher is a legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhippy Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 As a Minardi/Toro Rosso fan, I can't see that far up the drivers' championship. Who is this Shoemaker of whom you talk? FORZA MINARDI (when we come back in 2008, hopefully)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginner Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 He couldn't and didn't leave him standing - the main contributing factor in his death. Senna died trying to keep pace with Schumacher. This reads like you're both implying Senna crashed at Imola because he was trying too hard/going too fast round Tamburello.... a mistake induced by his poor start to the season, Schuey's good one, and Schuey being right behind him in that race. Unless I've missed something I don't believe the cause of Senna's accident has ever been proved. Steering column failure, driver error, car grounding,... all theories have been touted and none have been made to stick... trial verdict. I agree that it's a huge pity we did not get to see Senna and Schuey battle it out in competitive cars over a few seasons. Consequently Shuey's record number of wins, championships and poles will always suggest he is/was the best. However, for me, Senna was the ultimate qualifier and wet weather driver and that ,for me, makes him better than Schuey. Add to that the fact that Schuey never had a competitive team mate during his glory years makes his records seem a little less convincing to me. I think of all the drivers around at the same time as Schumacher - Senna was the only one who had anywhere near Schumacher's talent. I think Schumacher will be remembered for his achievements more than any moments of controversy... See, it's exactly because he had no competition that I feel his record will always appear better than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhippy Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Unless I've missed something I don't believe the cause of Senna's accident has ever been proved. Steering column failure, driver error, car grounding,... all theories have been touted and none have been made to stick... trial verdict. Never proved, and I do just think it was a tragic, tragic, moment. Senna was a genial driver. Nobody seems to be so bothered about Roland Ratzenberger in the Simtek at the same meet though ....... apologies for being blunt there ........ I agree that it's a huge pity we did not get to see Senna and Schuey battle it out in competitive cars over a few seasons. Consequently Shuey's record number of wins, championships and poles will always suggest he is/was the best. However, for me, Senna was the ultimate qualifier and wet weather driver and that ,for me, makes him better than Schuey. Add to that the fact that Schuey never had a competitive team mate during his glory years makes his records seem a little less convincing to me. See, it's exactly because he had no competition that I feel his record will always appear better than it is. Got a fair amount of sympathy with that argument, save for the fact that now, the cars themselves are being improved by the big few at such a rate, the best drivers are being left on a 'layer of cream' at the top of the constructors' championship. The 'number 1' driver will always be shielded ....... not that there are team orders ...... FORZA MINARDI! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfgenius Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Apparently, the Williams at the time was a bit of a pig to drive, and Senna was going through the Tamburello corner much harder than Hill was, and hit a bump. Schumacher is one of the greats, but like other people here have said has never had another great to go head-to-head with him, until Alonso. Barichello and now Massa have beaten him on occasion as team mates. The reason that he has won so many championships is as much down to Ross Brawn as it is Scuhmacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 Apparently, the Williams at the time was a bit of a pig to drive, and Senna was going through the Tamburello corner much harder than Hill was, and hit a bump. I think there is a huge question mark over whether Schumacher's Benneton had an illegal traction control device fitted, enabling him to keep pace with a great driver in a great car. Schumacher is one of the greats, but like other people here have said has never had another great to go head-to-head with him, until Alonso. How quickly everyone has forgotten Villeneuve who beat him in the mind as well as on the track before making one of the worst moves in F1 history. Barichello and now Massa have beaten him on occasion as team mates. The reason that he has won so many championships is as much down to Ross Brawn as it is Scuhmacher. Every driver needs a good team and to have that team 100% behind them. Mansell would have won a lot more championships if he had preferred driver status. Prost won his championships through political manouvering as much as driver ability. Both Senna and Schumacher had 100% support and had the whole team set up around them. Senna vetoed the appointment of potentially strong drivers when at Lotus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickM Posted September 13, 2006 Share Posted September 13, 2006 To be honest I stopped really giving a damn about F1 when Hakkinen retired, it was obvious Schumy was going to be in a league of his own from then on. The sooner they re-introduce slick tyres giving drivers better grip and get rid of all the electronic driving aids the better as far as I'm concerned. Then hopefully, we can see racing like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jUYz-W5hZE You won't find many duals like it involving Schumy because 90% of his overtaking manouvres occured during his pit stops. Although you can't blame him for that more the state of F1 in general - you can be 2-3secs a lap quicker these days and still find it impossible to overtake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginner Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 ...Then hopefully, we can see racing like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jUYz-W5hZE.... That's quality. I reckon both drivers would've been black flagged these days for "unsporting conduct" or "smoking tyre infringement" or "getting too close to a fellow competitor". The sport has lost all appeal for me, and seems to be a logistical/tactical battle these days. FIA should stop screwing around with the rules and bring the sport back to what it should be all about... driver ability and mechanical advancement (minus electronic aids). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 That's quality. I reckon both drivers would've been black flagged these days for "unsporting conduct" or "smoking tyre infringement" or "getting too close to a fellow competitor". The sport has lost all appeal for me, and seems to be a logistical/tactical battle these days. FIA should stop screwing around with the rules and bring the sport back to what it should be all about... driver ability and mechanical advancement (minus electronic aids). One area that occasionally gets mentioned is the rear wing. A lot of developments on F1 cars feed their way into road cars eventually e.g. paddle shift semi-automatic gears. However one advance which would never be passed on to road cars is the science of spoiling the air behind them. Wings are designed especially to create conditions such that rival F1 cars are unstable when close behind and find it impossible to follow closely through corners. I reckon that if F1 could somehow legislate to outlaw these wings, we would see closer racing and more overtaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginner Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 ...A lot of developments on F1 cars feed their way into road cars eventually e.g. paddle shift semi-automatic gears... Absolutely..ABS, traction control etc,...and F1 development should be left to flourish.....however... ...Wings are designed especially to create conditions such that rival F1 cars are unstable when close behind and find it impossible to follow closely through corners.... I hadn't heard of this, and am astounded that FIA allows such developments to be legal. Not only does it rob us of much needed slipstreaming maneuvers like that seen above, but it borders on being dangerous surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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