Political Wings

[crookesey]

The anti Labour Party v the anti Tory Party along with ‘Can’ Make Our Minds Up Party’. I’m sick of listening to the lot of them, irrespective of what wing they purport to represent, a coalition government with less childish name calling would be a good start.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, crookesey said:

The anti Labour Party v the anti Tory Party along with ‘Can’ Make Our Minds Up Party’. I’m sick of listening to the lot of them, irrespective of what wing they purport to represent, a coalition government with less childish name calling would be a good start.

I agree with that sentiment and have given up hope of any of them,  working for the benefit of the country rather than themselves.

We need to be rid of our flawed voting system which keeps this pantomime going and move to proportional representation where everyone can have a say in our affairs.

The last coalition government was not a successful one and we must wrench the power back from those who would continue with  the status quo and make them all accountable.

 

[El Cid]

38 minutes ago, Organgrinder said:

 

We need to be rid of our flawed voting system which keeps this pantomime going and move to proportional representation where everyone can have a say in our affairs.

The last coalition government was not a successful one and we must wrench the power back from those who would continue with  the status quo and make them all accountable.

 

Why didnt the last coalition government not meet your expectations, yet you want PR which could give more coalition governments?

Johnson only lasted 2 years, he was a total failure under FPTP, yet the coalition government lasted the full 5 years.

Sunaks Government is also poor and people want a change.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, El Cid said:

Why didnt the last coalition government not meet your expectations, yet you want PR which could give more coalition governments?

Johnson only lasted 2 years, he was a total failure under FPTP, yet the coalition government lasted the full 5 years.

Sunaks Government is also poor and people want a change.

If you don't know why our system of government doesn't work  ( for the people I mean  -  it works fine for the politicians )  then it may be hard to explain.

The main problem is, and always has been,  the party whip.  The MP's are voted to Westminster by the public to represent the public. 

When they come to  vote on something,  the party whip usually says,  you will vote as our leader tells you despite what you think your constituents want or even what you want.

Politicians are far more likely to break promises made to their constituents and the public at large when they can blame the party leader and party whips for voting the opposite way.

Both sides break sincerely made promises all the time and we need to be able to stop this.  It's far easier for the public to control an individual MP than it is to control the party machine.

 

In the government you refer to,  the Lib Dems did a complete reversal of policies so that they could share the spoils with the tories,

   DO PROMISES COUNT OR NOT ?        I'm sure that most would say Yes.

 

[crookesey]

Lying is something that politicians don’t do, they quite often vary the truth, but they never tell lies. 😂

 

[El Cid]

2 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

If you don't know why our system of government doesn't work  ( for the people I mean  -  it works fine for the politicians )  then it may be hard to explain.

The main problem is, and always has been,  the party whip.  The MP's are voted to Westminster by the public to represent the public. 

When they come to  vote on something,  the party whip usually says,  you will vote as our leader tells you despite what you think your constituents want or even what you want.

Politicians are far more likely to break promises made to their constituents and the public at large when they can blame the party leader and party whips for voting the opposite way.

Both sides break sincerely made promises all the time and we need to be able to stop this.  It's far easier for the public to control an individual MP than it is to control the party machine.

 

In the government you refer to,  the Lib Dems did a complete reversal of policies so that they could share the spoils with the tories,

   DO PROMISES COUNT OR NOT ?        I'm sure that most would say Yes.

 

Should we just accept that the Liberal Democrats didnt get a majority, so they were unable to deliver on their policies?

There is usually a three line whip when its a vote on an election promise, rightly so.

The Conservatives are trying not to increase taxes, but people are now moaning because the personal allowance means that they may have to pay more tax. People need to get real.

The Tory voters knew that they were electing a lyer and a cheat!

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Should we just accept that the Liberal Democrats didnt get a majority, so they were unable to deliver on their policies?

There is usually a three line whip when its a vote on an election promise, rightly so.

The Conservatives are trying not to increase taxes, but people are now moaning because the personal allowance means that they may have to pay more tax. People need to get real.

The Tory voters knew that they were electing a lyer and a cheat!

You can accept whatever you please.  We are not bound to agree with each other.  Others,  like myself don't think that politicians should be allowed to break election promises.

As I've already said,  I am totally against the party whips principle as I think it's extremely damaging to democracy.    Again,  that just my personal view with which you, and others, will differ.

It's easy for the Tories to  tell the people it's a straight choice between taxes  and public services.  It isn't  -  they can choose to take more of the rich and less off the poor.

If they made big multinational companies pay their share of the taxes we would all be able to benefit whilst only paying less taxes than we do now.

Why should we let Amazon avoid tax whilst they are busy undercutting our shops so we finish up with empty high streets ?

No accounting for voters who will elect liars and cheats but I'm proud to  distance myself from that and prefer honesty.

 

[El Cid]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

You can accept whatever you please.  We are not bound to agree with each other.  Others,  like myself don't think that politicians should be allowed to break election promises.

As I've already said,  I am totally against the party whips principle as I think it's extremely damaging to democracy.    Again,  that just my personal view with which you, and others, will differ.

It's easy for the Tories to  tell the people it's a straight choice between taxes  and public services.  It isn't  -  they can choose to take more of the rich and less off the poor.

If they made big multinational companies pay their share of the taxes we would all be able to benefit whilst only paying less taxes than we do now.

Why should we let Amazon avoid tax whilst they are busy undercutting our shops so we finish up with empty high streets ?

No accounting for voters who will elect liars and cheats but I'm proud to  distance myself from that and prefer honesty.

Without the whips, a party would be unable to keep its promises, if MPs are not forced to vote for the promise.

 

I think the reason why we have empty shops is varied. The supermarket and out of town retailers have the best free parking, people are lavy and they buy from many online shops.

Where I live, shops are not empty, they have just changed what they sell. More cafes, bars, nail bars, charity shops and bookmakers.

[Anna B]

People buy from online shops because they are considerably cheaper in many cases, especially in Britain where things like business rates and taxes are very high for shop keepers.

They just can't compete.

And in a cost of living crisis every penny counts for the customer too.

 

Perfect storm...

Edited January 17 by Anna B

[hackey lad]

3 minutes ago, Anna B said:

People buy from online shops because they are considerably cheaper in many cases, especially in Britain where things like business rates and taxes are very high for shop keepers.

They just can't compete.

And in a cost of living crisis every penny counts for the customer too.

 

Perfect storm...

Ordered something last night . Delivered 10 am this morning. Couldn’t find it in shops.