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The Golden Generation, It's Coming To An End Now, Big Time.

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6 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

I think people do use 'leftie' a lot, probably me included. I don't think you are deeply left wing.

 

However, maybe I would just use it because it's an easier way of typing something like: ideologist with no reasonable answers or logical thought to how to fix genuine problems that either have been proven not to work, or simply won't work because they are simply ideologies.

 

To give an extreme example: All people should live together in peace and harmony.

This kind of ideology is drummed into Brits, AND Europeans for a few decades (and USA too, we follow them!). I actually think this kind of attempted indocrination is actually bad for society, because it's trying to brush over issues that affect people every day... like the issues you mention, but on a much bigger scale.

 

I don't think society is much different to other times, or other countries. There have ALWAYS been 'super' rich people, and always been the rest of us. 

 

I think the problem is that both Labour and Tory are both crap. They don't care about the future. They care about the next 4 years and keeping their wages and pension, and to be honest, if I was a politician without savings, I would probably follow the pack too. I'd be happy to hear from anyone that doesn't think about their own welfare and their families welfare before the people who will be alive in 50, 100 years. 

 

 

Firstly, can I respectfully disagree entirely with your definition of 'Left wing.'

It bears no resemblance to some of the great Socialist leaders who have achieved a great deal and changed the life of millions for the better with their 'Ideologies' which they turned into practical pragmatic methodologies which still survive with us to this day.

 

They have been proven to work, which is actually the focus of this thread, in the shape of the post war baby boomers who according to this thread are the 'golden generation' who never had it so good because of the socialist practices in action. They produced the most egalitarian period, the most social mobilty, the most opportunities for the working class, and the happiest time this country has ever seen. 

 

Responsible Capitalism, hand in hand with social welfare, works, and works well. It would be working today had the Tories not taken a sledgehammer to the reforms for its own edification.

I don't buy into the idea 'we can't afford it', as the government can afford whatever it wants to afford and gives priority to.

Unfortunately , the working people of this country are not it.

 

The Tories prefer to spend our taxes on weapons to support foreign wars, indulging the super wealthy in one of the best tax havens in the world, giving lucrative contracts not to the best  suppliers, but to their mates, and a few pet projects of their own, like shagging their research assistants.

 

They have abandoned responsible capitalism for neoliberalism, which they have now spread round the world so there is no going back. The world is all the worse for it, and in quiet rage. People are angry and getting angrier..

 

When Starmer's Labour also fails to make a difference I fear all hell will break loose...

 

 

 

Edited by Anna B
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5 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Firstly, can I respectfully disagree entirely with your definition of 'Left wing.'

It bears no resemblance to some of the great Socialist leaders who have achieved a great deal and changed the life of millions for the better with their 'Ideologies' which they turned into practical pragmatic methodologies which still survive with us to this day.

 

They have been proven to work, which is actually the focus of this thread, in the shape of the post war baby boomers who according to this thread are the 'golden generation' who never had it so good because of the socialist practices in action. They produced the most egalitarian period, the most social mobilty, and the most opportunities for the working class this country has ever seen. 

 

Responsible Capitalism, hand in hand with social welfare, works, and works well. It would be working today had the Tories not taken a sledgehammer to the reforms for its own edification.

I don't buy into the idea 'we can't afford it', as the government can afford whatever it wants to afford and gives priority to.

Unfortunately , the working people of this country are not it.

 

The Tories prefer to spend our taxes on weapons to support foreign wars, indulging the super wealthy in one of the best tax havens in the world, giving lucrative contracts not to the best  suppliers, but to their mates, and a few pet projects of their own, like shagging their research assistants.

 

They have abandoned responsible capitalism for neoliberalism, which they have now spread round the world so there is no going back. The world is all the worse for it, and in uproar. People are angry and getting angrier..

When Starmer's Labour also fails to make a difference I fear all hell will break loose...

 

 

 

Cobblers.

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1 minute ago, hackey lad said:

Cobblers.

My, that's what I like to see; a well considered, and erudite argument...

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10 minutes ago, Anna B said:

My, that's what I like to see; a well considered, and erudite argument...

Thank you 

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On 08/11/2023 at 22:51, Chekhov said:

I have often though the present generation of retired people really are the Golden Generation.

They are the luckiest generation to have ever lived and, particularly if the Nett Zero zealots have their way (restricting us all from travelling), they may possibly be the luckiest generation who will ever live.

Do they realise how fortunate they are ?

 

Many bought their house before the prices sky rocketed, meaning they not only owned a house but would have been able to down size and trouser a tidy sum. They even got MIRAS (Mortgage Rate Interest Relief At Source), i.e. the government let them claim some of the mortgage interest off their tax ! In fact over a million were able to buy their own council house at  a massive discount !

 

At a time when when life expectancy was rising significantly, but the retirement age had not yet caught up, most were able to retire at only 65, and the women even younger at only 60. Some were even able to take early retirement on a full pension (my own Dad did, very wisely) but even those who worked to the "full retirement age" would have had, on average, about 25 years of retirement. Think about that...... 25 years, and much of it in good health ! How many people could expect that now ? 

 

OMG ! Pensions ! Many, particularly in the public sector has index linked, or, even better, final salary pension schemes. It's almost unbelievable isn't it ! Even those on just the state pension have had the benefit of the Triple lock which ensures that, relative to other generations, pensioners have been getting better off.

 

The health of this generation is better than any before, and they are the first generation to have state paid for healthcare from cradle to grave. In fact it is entirely possible what is available on the NHS will actually start to reduce over the coming years, thus they were able to use the NHS at its most generous.

 

OK it was only available to the brightest, but, wait for this (it's almost like fantasy land) : free university education ! Get a degree with no huge debt ! ? ! In fact there was even a student grant to assist with living expenses.

Did that really exist, surely not ? ! ?

 

The Golden Generation were able to take advantage of air fares coming down and their wealth going up, to do unprecedented amounts of travelling. Even "working class" pensioners often jet off to Spain for months during the winter, something unthinkable even 20 or 30 years ago. Cheap and/or unlimited travel may not last much longer thanks to Nett  Zero fanatics, and, rather selfishly, some retirees are actually pleased about it (e.g. here) ! Even motoring looks set to become much more expensive, in fact some academics are even suggesting petrol, household energy, meat and flights should be rationed.....

 

A bit more arguable I accept, but significant for many, including me. They were living most of their lives before Health & Safety overkill and general fear of everything took hold and started limiting so much of life's little freedoms (and not so little ones as well).

And they could say pretty much what they wanted, nor did they have to worry if their little joke about "an Englishman a Scotsman and an Irishman" would have them branded a bigot. Lastly, they could get into a drunken snog without worrying unduly they would later get accused of sexual assault......

 

Added (courtesy of Jack Grey), they never had to fight a war, and most of them missed the call up for National Service, plus they had MIRAS.

 

Yes, lucky is not the word, exceptionally fortunate would be closer to the truth....

I‚Äôm not so much the ‚ÄėGolden Generation‚Äô as the ‚ÄėSilent‚Äô one.

Of course both are coming to an end because we are reaching an age when dropping off the perch one by one becomes habitual.

Personally two of my best friends, both younger than me, have died in the last few years.

In many ways my generation has been fortunate but it hasn’t come without some difficult times many of which have been mentioned previously.

The properties around me sell for ridiculously high prices and I often wonder how young families can afford to buy them. I certainly couldn’t now.

One answer comes from our recent neighbours who were both bankers and worked from home most of the time just commuting to London once a week. Another answer might be that they are drug barons, although that’s unlikely. Having said that a cannabis farm was discovered not a million miles away a few years ago.

Yet another solution might be that some of these families have inherited wealth from their ‚ÄėGolden Generation‚Äô parents who are either still around or have passed on.

So, in conclusion I do think that the current generation should perhaps be grateful for the legacy that many of my lot will leave and which the vast majority of past generations never had.

 

echo.

Edited by echo beach
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I'm sure the majority of the Golden Generation are very grateful for the advantages they enjoyed. I certainly am.

The point is we thought these 'advantages' had been won in perpetuity for the benefit of all, including future generations, and they should have been.

They were very hard won after many years of struggle and endurance. Severe poverty, a world war, a deep depression with extensive unemployment and yet more poverty, and then another world war had necessitated the founding of a new party, the Labour Party, to fight for the people and right wrongs. This was no flash in the pan quick fix, but finally a fundamental change in the zeitguist that the world had to be a fairer place, and for a brief flowering moment, it was. It worked. Everyone was happy. 

 

But the mistake was thinking the battle had been won. The 'advantages' should have been written into a constitution to make them permanent rights; the 'norm,' not advantages, but they were not. People became politically dormant. The Conservatives saw them as akin to communism, and started chipping away at them from the word go, by developing a far right neoliberal stance to counter them. This blossomed under Thatcher but had been in the pipeline for years. Labour saw the coming danger and tried to wake the people up to the danger with a succession of strong political Leaders, but there was no taste for old politics as we were 'all middle class now.' and enjoying the fruits of Labour's post war success. We'd become complacent and taken our eye off the ball allowing Thatcher (and Tony Blair's 'New' Labour) to forge ahead with neoliberal reforms. 

 

We can now see where that got us. A one party system with no opposition masquerading as two, and very few ways of protesting our disatisfaction. Brexit was a howl of protest that things have to change, but merely highlighted our lack of understanding of all things political. Jeremy Corbyn tried to raise awareness but failed. Starmer is another Blair but without the charisma. We are now where we are. This is the new normal, and it's only going to get worse.

 

As Neil Kinnock acurately prophesied in 1983... "I warn you not to be ordinary, I warn you not to be young, I warn you not to fall ill, I warn you not to get old..... Please read the full speech its accuracy for today is quite profound.

https://speakola.com/political/neil-kinnock-i-warn-you-campaign-1983

 

New generations will have to fight all over again for what they want, and don't take your eye off the ball. 

 

Edited by Anna B
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12 hours ago, Anna B said:

They were very hard won after many years of struggle and endurance. 

Unfortunately that's what it takes to achieve prosperity.

 

Today's generation, just expect, nay demand, that a magical "government" deliver cradle to grave care, education, health,, a "decent" job, at a "decent" wage, a "decent" place to ;ive, without racking up spiraling unsustainable National Debts on future generations.

 

That's the "legacy" of today's "me" generation.

Edited by trastrick
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1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Unfortunately that's what it takes to achieve prosperity.

 

Today's generation, just expect, nay demand, that a magical "government" deliver cradle to grave care, education, health,, a "decent" job, at a "decent" wage, a "decent" place to ;ive, without racking up spiraling unsustainable National Debts on future generations.

 

That's the "legacy" of today's "me" generation.

Yes they do, that's why they pay tax. 

 

This country achieved great prosperity during the 19th century squarely on the backs of the working man.

We were the richest country in the world exploiting one of the poorest populations. That is until the formation and fight of the Unions and Labour party. It took them over 50 years of strife to get some form of equilibrium with welfare reforms after the second world war, and just 30 years for the Conservatives to destroy them again.

 

It's not about 'racking up unsustainable debt' it's about prioritising the working population, (the lifeblood of the country,) rather than the super rich, and treating them fairly, and with respect.

For example our taxes are currently used to subsidise the oil industry to the tune of £42Billion a year, (see 'The great climate fight' channel 4) in spite of their mega profits.

 

That would fund all of the above. 

Edited by Anna B

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5 hours ago, Anna B said:

Yes they do, that's why they pay tax. 

But obviously not nearly enough to pay for their services.  You have spiraling, unsustainable Nation Debt, remember?

 

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

This country achieved great prosperity during the 19th century squarely on the backs of the working man.

Didn't it have to do with Colonialism, and exploiting the natives and stealing their riches?

 

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

For example our taxes are currently used to subsidise the oil industry to the tune of £42Billion a year, (see 'The great climate fight' channel 4) in spite of their mega profits.

 

That would fund all of the above. 

Would you still have a viable energy industry bringing it's products from all over the world and playing a huge part in feeding the world's hungry, with the cash reserves to maintain a dependable energy supply in times of crisis, say like wars in the Middle East?

 

The only thing that works for successful governments {and families for that matter} is to pay as you go for what you demand now!

 

But no politician could ever get elected in the U.K. with THAT platform!

 

That's why they continue down the slippery slope with crisis after crisis.

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20 hours ago, trastrick said:

But obviously not nearly enough to pay for their services.  You have spiraling, unsustainable Nation Debt, remember?

 

Didn't it have to do with Colonialism, and exploiting the natives and stealing their riches?

 

Would you still have a viable energy industry bringing it's products from all over the world and playing a huge part in feeding the world's hungry, with the cash reserves to maintain a dependable energy supply in times of crisis, say like wars in the Middle East?

 

The only thing that works for successful governments {and families for that matter} is to pay as you go for what you demand now!

 

But no politician could ever get elected in the U.K. with THAT platform!

 

That's why they continue down the slippery slope with crisis after crisis.

It's also a good idea to be more self sufficient in terms of resources, but Thatcher changed all that by selling off our assets and turning us all over to 'market forces.'  That woman did irreparable harm to this country and no one since has had the guts or the ability to put it right.  

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12 minutes ago, Anna B said:

It's also a good idea to be more self sufficient in terms of resources, but Thatcher changed all that by selling off our assets and turning us all over to 'market forces.'  That woman did irreparable harm to this country and no one since has had the guts or the ability to put it right.  

Absolutely agree, Anna.

 

echo.

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On 21/11/2023 at 22:53, Organgrinder said:

There are many people who don't [think about the people who will be alive in 50, 100 years],  including myself.

Well you certainly don't think much about people who are alive now.....

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