Trans Women Are Women. To Disagree Is Hate.

[Waldo 96]

I was just checking some JK Rowling tweets and responses (another poster referenced them on another thread), relating to some comments she made concerning trans people.

 

The topic title “trans women ARE women” was a typical response to JKR, often along with a “to disagree IS to hate”.

 

Is this true? Can we define ourselves as being male or female?

Edited August 5, 2022 by Waldo

[The_DADDY 3,449]

'Hate' is the new 'racist'.

People are free to identify anyway they like as far as I'm concerned but I also think people are free to have an opinion on it without it being labeled 'hate' 

 

[lazarus 68]

2 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

'Hate' is the new 'racist'.

People are free to identify anyway they like as far as I'm concerned but I also think people are free to have an opinion on it without it being labeled 'hate' 

 

I only hate one person, if I don’t like something or someone isn’t hatred, someone should try to understand this, if I don’t like sugar in my tea doesn’t mean I hate it.

[The_DADDY 3,449]

9 minutes ago, lazarus said:

I only hate one person, if I don’t like something or someone isn’t hatred, someone should try to understand this, if I don’t like sugar in my tea doesn’t mean I hate it.

My bold.

I agree 100% 👍

[hobinfoot 25]

You can identify has a man or woman if you choose. But you’re biological sex is what you were born with.

[Guest]

You've got a couple of questions there: essentially, can you identify as a woman or as a man contrary to your biology; and are beliefs critical of that notion hateful.  Short answers: yes, and possibly, respectively.

 

I was going to hop on my hobby horse and write about the abhorrent concept of the cotton ceiling and lady dick, but honestly I just want to drink my gin & rhubarb and eat my Tunnocks teacake.  So, not quite as long as I thought it was going to be answer:

 

It's possible to be critical of gender identity theory - from a position, for example, of supporting the rights of women and girls and the importance of maintaining single sex spaces - while having respect for transpeople.  Both JKR and Kathleen Stock, for example, have stated this in no uncertain terms (read the latter's book, Material Girls, especially chapter 1 for an outline of what gender identity theory is, and how that makes it possible for a straight, anatomically and physiologically intact biological male to identify as a woman and a lesbian if he (she)  expresses his (her) inner gender identity).

 

It's also possible to approach your gender critical position from the rather less than respectful perspective of being 'anti-woke' and arguing that the existence of transwomen is an affront to masculinity, or whatever guff Josh Hawley is no doubt  wittering about in his book Dick, Manhood.

 

To loosely paraphrase JKR, everyone should be free to live their best lives and love and **** any consenting adult who'll have them.  I think most reasonable people agree with that.

[Chekhov 488]

12 hours ago, Waldo said:

I was just checking some JK Rowling tweets and responses (another poster referenced them on another thread), relating to some comments she made concerning trans people.

The topic title “trans women ARE women” was a typical response to JKR, often along with a “to disagree IS to hate”.

Is this true? Can we define ourselves as being male or female?

If people get upset by tweets, or indeed anything on the internet, there is a simple answer, don't bother reading it.

What is it your Mum told you ? Sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt me. A slight exaggeration in the real world, but less so when it comes to the internet because in almost all cases people can only get upset if they make a conscious effort to read it. So just don't bother, what could be simpler ? The problem is these days so many people are determined to be offended. Man up (pun intended).

[leviathan13 348]

My usual question to this is, if trans women are women, why do you need to put 'trans' in front? Obviously it's an identifier that distinguishes one from another. For me it's like claiming vegan chicken is chicken... no, it isn't!

 

However!

 

That's not me claiming vegan chicken is bad and shouldn't exist... as with trans people.

 

Unfortunately we've arrived at a point where having an alternate view to the hove-mind means you're -ist or -phobic of some kind.

 

I follow Sharron Davies on Twitter and the crap she has to endure is awful, simply for trying to keep female spaces female. 'They' claim that Sharron hates trans people and she wants them to not be able to participate in sport. Wrong! She's happy for trans women to participate in sport, just not at the expense of womens' rights.

 

Have trans categories, like they do with the para-olympics. That way everyone can compete, in there respective classes, and everyone is happy!

Edited August 5, 2022 by leviathan13

[Norbert 145]

8 hours ago, leviathan13 said:

Unfortunately we've arrived at a point where having an alternate view to the hove-mind means you're -ist or -phobic of some kind.

 

Are you referring to the Brighton and Hove mind?

 

Also calling something vegan chicken helps you know how to use it in cooking, what to pair it with etc,.

[Ms Macbeth 70]

16 hours ago, leviathan13 said:

My usual question to this is, if trans women are women, why do you need to put 'trans' in front? Obviously it's an identifier that distinguishes one from another. For me it's like claiming vegan chicken is chicken... no, it isn't!

 

However!

 

That's not me claiming vegan chicken is bad and shouldn't exist... as with trans people.

 

Unfortunately we've arrived at a point where having an alternate view to the hove-mind means you're -ist or -phobic of some kind.

 

I follow Sharron Davies on Twitter and the crap she has to endure is awful, simply for trying to keep female spaces female. 'They' claim that Sharron hates trans people and she wants them to not be able to participate in sport. Wrong! She's happy for trans women to participate in sport, just not at the expense of womens' rights.

 

Have trans categories, like they do with the para-olympics. That way everyone can compete, in there respective classes, and everyone is happy!

Everyone except the activists.   I’ve been reading about Lia Thomas, a US swimmer who identifies as a woman. She beats all those whose sex is female, and several of her teammates are very uncomfortable at sharing changing rooms with someone whose body is that of an intact male.   I wonder how someone with such a physical advantage (male puberty etc) can feel any joy in their victories?   
 

People should live as they want, wear what they want, rename themselves if they want.  But not at the expense of women’s spaces or women’s sport.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ms Macbeth

[The_DADDY 3,449]

24 minutes ago, Ms Macbeth said:

Everyone except the activists.   I’ve been reading about Lia Thomas, a US swimmer who identifies as a woman. She beats all those whose sex is female, and several of her teammates are very uncomfortable at sharing changing rooms with someone whose body is that of an intact male.   I wonder how someone with such a physical advantage (male puberty etc) can feel any joy in their victories?   
 

People should live as they want, wear what they want, rename themselves if they want.  But not at the expense of women’s spaces or women’s sport.

👏👏👏

[Jomie 30]

Quote

Quote LovePotion: 
 

Trans women ARE ladies.

Do you mean that male to female people are the same as biological females? If so, then it follows that the those who were born in the sex category ‘girl/woman’ must also be trans girls/women because those two groups are one. 

A woman is an adult human female. A female is an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs. Does this apply to trans women? 

A natal woman cannot know what it is to be trans, no more than a man can know what it is to be born female. Life experiences are entirely different.  If you want to know something of the trials of being a biological woman, listen to the BBC programme ‘28 days-ish’ on Sounds. When you have done that, come back here and tell us if there is anything that correlates with a natal man’s life experience. 
 

Also go onto the Trans Widows website and read some of those accounts of women who have had to deal with their partner’s fetish. If you want to know more about that, read Ray Blanchard.  Read up on the harrowing stories of people who have damaged their perfectly healthy bodies only to realise that they have not become what they desired. Reddit has a sub detrans section. Trans regret is becoming more known about know as people speak up. Helen Joyce’s book ‘Trans’ is another useful read.
 

JKR is not transphobic. If you have read her essay, you will know that. All she wants is for women to have their own, sex segregated spaces so that women are not put at risk. Also preservation of women's rights regarding such things as sport, all women short lists.  Studies show that patterns of criminality do not change when a man decides to present as a woman - they are equal to that of men.  Have a look at terfisaslur for some indication of the misogyny and hatred of women.  

Women learn from an early age to tread warily through life. They know that men can be a danger - thankfully not all.  Domestic abuse and murder is predominantly perpetrated by men.  This is why women want their own spaces. Also for privacy and dignity. 
 

People cannot change sex. Professor Winston has said that our sex markers are in every cell of our body. All trans people can do is adopt stereotypical appearance. That does not make them members of that sex category.  
 

Most trans people are getting on quietly with their lives and they should not be harassed or harmed for their choices.  

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Jomie