Bus Services May Be Reduced By One Third.

[RollingJ 2,002]

Totally agree, @Resident.

[Baron99 779]

Do I have this right? 

 

I start up a small bus company & build it up over a number of years to a much larger one such as First Group & Stagecoach.  I'm now so big, I can tender for the routes of most of the local authorities in the UK & tell the people of those cities & towns that because of all the millions I make, I can provide them with a decent bus service. 

 

I then decide after a few years that I'm going to pull services unless I get taxpayer / council taxpayer monies from central & local government.  All while still making vast profits & paying shareholders of my company dividends. 

[RollingJ 2,002]

2 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

Do I have this right? 

 

I start up a small bus company & build it up over a number of years to a much larger one such as First Group & Stagecoach.  I'm now so big, I can tender for the routes of most of the local authorities in the UK & tell the people of those cities & towns that because of all the millions I make, I can provide them with a decent bus service. 

 

I then decide after a few years that I'm going to pull services unless I get taxpayer / council taxpayer monies from central & local government.  All while still making vast profits & paying shareholders of my company dividends. 

Don't think you have it QUITE right. The routes you would tender for are those which a PTE/LA see as socially necessary, all the others you run as a commercial service - which if you are to survive as a company - have to make you a profit.

 

Unfortunately, due to the reducing ridership, these services are actually running at a massive loss, so you are being driven out of business - if you can't cover your costs, you go bankrupt.

[hackey lad 3,955]

1 hour ago, Resident said:

From my source with SY public transport.

 NOBODY, not even the bus companies, currently know the situation for the October changes. Negotiations regarding funding are still ongoing.

To me this is nothing more than an attempt to undermine public opinion and swing towards gaining control of public transport through decieving the public.

 

 

So Louise Haigh MP and Mayor Oliver Coppard  are blowing hot air , again 

[RollingJ 2,002]

3 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

So Louise Haigh MP and Mayor Oliver Coppard  are blowing hot air , again 

Or talking out of their political rear orifice.

[Guest busdriver1]

The way the law stands at the moment it is actually illegal to run a bus service at a loss. 

If local and national government won't pick up the tab then the operators are legaly obliged to cancel those services. 

Money given to help bus companies recover from the pandemic was sadly given to local authorities who predictably spent it trying to win votes instead of for its true purpose. As a result of this, little if any recovery took place and we have now arrived at a position where large numbers of services are loss making. 

This has not been helped by the local authorities not spending the B. S.O.G money appropriately (I.e. to improve infrastructure) and any use of it seems to be invisible. The monies paid to operators for the conveyance of the ever increasing amount of concessionary passes is pitiful to the degree that if a double decker was to run with a full load of concessionary passes it would run at a loss. The level of payment is set by the local authority. 

Over the years SYPTE has coerced and bullied  operators into reducing fares to the currently unsustainable levels. 

Want to find someone to blame for this mess?  Look beyond the smokescreen currently being used by the Mk2 PTE and you will see it is ALL down to them and their actions over the years. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by busdriver1

[HeHasRisen 3,381]

So under the new proposals there wont be a single 120 after 10pm? That doesnt sound right.

[Guest busdriver1]

Just now, HeHasRisen said:

So under the new proposals there wont be a single 120 after 10pm? That doesnt sound right.

You are making a massive mistake. 

Don't believe a word of this garbage it is posturing to try and divert attention from their incompetence that has caused this in the first place. 

[hackey lad 3,955]

7 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

So under the new proposals there wont be a single 120 after 10pm? That doesnt sound right.

That’s what I thought and basically  what Louise Haigh MP said in the commons. I know better now 

[Guest busdriver1]

As for the 1000% increase in the tenders being submitted by the operators. It is fairly clear that if service X ran breaking even or making a small profit before covid and the non recovery programme. There may have been one journey that required a subsidy while the rest ran OK.  Now, with massive increases in fuel prices, training costs spiralling due to staff turnover, further reductions in concessionary pass payments, rerouting services down unsuitable roads and the loss of passengers due to covid itself and their not having been enticed back onto buses then all journies may now be loss making resulting in ALL journies requiring subsidy instead of just one. 

Its all in the wording. Not once did they say they say that the amount of services requiring subsidy had risen, only that the bill was going up. A small but crucial ommision. Can't think how they forgot to put that in. 

[Resident 1,185]

2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

Do I have this right? 

 

I start up a small bus company & build it up over a number of years to a much larger one such as First Group & Stagecoach.  I'm now so big, I can tender for the routes of most of the local authorities in the UK & tell the people of those cities & towns that because of all the millions I make, I can provide them with a decent bus service. 

 

I then decide after a few years that I'm going to pull services unless I get taxpayer / council taxpayer monies from central & local government.  All while still making vast profits & paying shareholders of my company dividends. 

First Group is separate to FirstBus. FirstGroup only made a profit this financial due to the sale of Greyhound in the US

Firstbus is then separated into individual operations, each responsible for it's own operation and budget.

2013-2019 First South Yorkshire LOST £26 million. 2019-2020 was slightly less on yearly losses due to government funding starting just before the end of the financial year. Even so, it was still a loss of £2.7 million. 

Bus companies are not, as you say, making vast profits. Vast losses. 

Those subsidies you mention from authorities. Imagine your the bus company and I'm the council. I promise you a subsidy of £1 per passenger in the first year. All great, the subsidy covers the operational costs, you don't make a profit but you don't make a loss either. Except the following year due to inflation and rising operational costs, you ask for £1.10 per passenger and I refuse and offer 80p instead. I won't budge from my offer, you either take it or opt out of running the service because you cannot shoulder the additional 27% costs as this would be a loss. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Resident

[spilldig 188]

On 30/06/2022 at 12:30, Resident said:

There was funding. He decided to use it to extend the 18-21 scheme which has had ZERO impact on passenger numbers during the first 9 month scheme. The thing is that it's 18-21 year olds that are paying passengers.  So reducing the prices to child fares & giving a poor subsidy in return is damaging not helping.

The other issue is the number of non-paying passengers, subsidised by the taxpayers. The eldery and disabled, from here known as NPT. One driver was telling me not long ago that in his first half of his duty (4.5hrs) he had processed 138 passengers. 136 of them being NPT. From what I understand the subsidy payments for these NPTs are absolutely abysmal and do NOT cover the cost of the journey. 

I'm not blaming the elderly/disabled but something needs to change in the way the services are paid for. I have spoken to quite a few elderly passengers and they have said that they really should pay something. 

TSY gives students a £1 single fare so why can't that be extended and used for NPTs, with the subsidy topping up the shortfall. Free travel is no longer viable as the number of elderly/disabled card holders has increased massively in recent years.