Bus Services May Be Reduced By One Third.

[belperite 11]

29 minutes ago, saywhatnow said:

The way things are at the moment I'd be happier with fewer scheduled buses for my journeys if it meant all journeys were covered. Every day I need a bus at the moment I end up checking apps, Twitter, and then First's daily list of cancelled services to be sure the time I want to get the bus their will be a bus that turns up. 

The apps and the electronic signs all seem to lie quite a lot. The only reliable way now seems to be to look at the GPS map on bustimes.org and see if there is a bus physically en route.

[Andy C 85]

48 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Anna, it isn't the councils fault -this time - bus services are mainly operated on a commercial basis, and if the operator makes a loss, they apply to cancel the service.

 

Actually all the ones changing in July are tendered services not commercial ones but you are correct in that it isn't the council - it is the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority. The issue with commercial services doesn't hit until October when the Covid support money runs out.

[HeHasRisen 3,373]

Its a tricky balance. If buses arent being used as much, what price are people prepared to pay for tickets to keep the services running?  Lets also not forget bus companies also have to buy diesel which is also going through the roof in terms of cost.

[RollingJ 1,999]

1 minute ago, Andy C said:

Actually all the ones changing in July are tendered services not commercial ones but you are correct in that it isn't the council - it is the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority. The issue with commercial services doesn't hit until October when the Covid support money runs out.

I realise that - just pointing out that the services are now mainly  run on a commercial basis.

[Andy C 85]

1 hour ago, Resident said:

There was funding. He decided to use it to extend the 18-21 scheme which has had ZERO impact on passenger numbers during the first 9 month scheme. The thing is that it's 18-21 year olds that are paying passengers.  So reducing the prices to child fares & giving a poor subsidy in return is damaging not helping.

The other issue is the number of non-paying passengers, subsidised by the taxpayers. The eldery and disabled, from here known as NPT. One driver was telling me not long ago that in his first half of his duty (4.5hrs) he had processed 138 passengers. 136 of them being NPT. From what I understand the subsidy payments for these NPTs are absolutely abysmal and do NOT cover the cost of the journey. 

I'm not blaming the elderly/disabled but something needs to change in the way the services are paid for. I have spoken to quite a few elderly passengers and they have said that they really should pay something. 

TSY gives students a £1 single fare so why can't that be extended and used for NPTs, with the subsidy topping up the shortfall. Free travel is no longer viable as the number of elderly/disabled card holders has increased massively in recent years. 

An issue on a lot of the tendered network as you imply is that the majority of passengers don't actually pay a fare at all, and the reimbursement rates for carrying senior and disabled pass holders is insultingly low. Those rates are set by the government.

 

You are right in that a good chunk of bus patronage is 18-21 year olds, they've gone from buying weekly/monthly commuter passes to paying 80p a ride subsidised by the mayor, it may have generated some extra trips, I'm not sure.

 

The student £1 fare is a promotional deal offered by the bus companies, it started as a way of Stagecoach luring students off First buses back in the days of competition on the University routes and the fare seems to have stuck, I guess these days it is buses competing with Uber for the student traffic.

 

There was an article in the Star recently about the M17 bus (Dore-Jordanthorpe) which is currently running a reduced timetable. The contract to operate this held by Hulleys was due to expire in July/August but they have agreed to keep operating it until October under the current terms but have made clear they have no intention of bidding for the next contract. Operating costs have shot through the roof (cost of diesel, wages and everything else), the bus takes very few fares and the reimbursement rate for concessionary travel isn't enough. At the funding levels the SYMCA is willing to pay it simply isn't viable to operate.

7 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

I realise that - just pointing out that the services are now mainly  run on a commercial basis.

Yes, indeed, that has been the system since deregulation - core network run commercially at no cost to the public purse with local authorities funding tendered services to supplement it.

 

I do think it is important to point out that the changes in July are entirely tendered services specified and funded by the mayor though, they are not the commercial services which have Covid funding to support them until October when the issue of patronage being well down compared with pre-covid becomes a problem.

31 minutes ago, belperite said:

The apps and the electronic signs all seem to lie quite a lot. The only reliable way now seems to be to look at the GPS map on bustimes.org and see if there is a bus physically en route.

that is a very useful website, I use it a lot! https://bustimes.org/districts/263

Edited June 30, 2022 by Andy C

[Andy C 85]

14 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Its a tricky balance. If buses arent being used as much, what price are people prepared to pay for tickets to keep the services running?  Lets also not forget bus companies also have to buy diesel which is also going through the roof in terms of cost.

You are right in that the cost of providing the service is shooting through the roof, as is the cost of motoring (and life in general!)

 

I think the important question right now ahead of the Covid money running out in October is why are people using public transport less? Of course it doesn't help that the authorities have been telling people not to use public transport as they will catch covid and die if they do, it also doesn't help that our politicians are regularly shouting  about how bad public transport is, again putting people off using it!

 

However more seriously, what needs to change for more people to use public transport? Are people simply not leaving their house as much? Are people now using other modes of transport instead? Is where people want to travel to different to before and not as well catered for by public transport? Or do people simply need reminding what services exist and what reasons they may find for travel?

Edited June 30, 2022 by Andy C

[Guest busdriver1]

Having read the release from sypte and looked at the facts this is beyond any doubt totally misleading and I think intentionally so. There will NOT be a reduction of 1/3 of bus services at all.
There will be a loss of JOURNIES on 1/3 of tendered JOURNIES.
The intentional implication that this is the fault of the operators is a typical attempt from the PTE to divert blame for their own incompetence.  And these people want full control of the buses. The grant that was given to all local authorities to try and get people back on buses after covid is ending but since it was spent on projects to win votes rather than actually do what it was intended for they are cutting services to prop up these vote winners for their political masters.
This has to be the worst case of PTE abuse in recent years.
BE VERY AFRAID OF THESE IDIOTS.

[RollingJ 1,999]

Well said, @busdriver1

[Andy C 85]

14 minutes ago, busdriver1 said:

Having read the release from sypte and looked at the facts this is beyond any doubt totally misleading and I think intentionally so. There will NOT be a reduction of 1/3 of bus services at all.
There will be a loss of JOURNIES on 1/3 of tendered JOURNIES.
The intentional implication that this is the fault of the operators is a typical attempt from the PTE to divert blame for their own incompetence.  And these people want full control of the buses. The grant that was given to all local authorities to try and get people back on buses after covid is ending but since it was spent on projects to win votes rather than actually do what it was intended for they are cutting services to prop up these vote winners for their political masters.
This has to be the worst case of PTE abuse in recent years.
BE VERY AFRAID OF THESE IDIOTS.

just to be pedantic....

 

it isn't SYPTE anymore, it is SYMCA (South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority). The organisation led by the mayor elect, Oliver Coppard, which is responsible for a number of things in the region including transport.

 

But yes, they've funded the Zoom Beyond pass giving young adults cheap travel and they are funding a pointless City Centre shuttle bus (including rebuilding a road junction so it can physically run!) at the same time as having to axe important community bus services they can no longer afford to fund!

 

The list of service changes from 25 July is here https://travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/newsupdates/service-changes#sheffield, In Sheffield there is one route (32/32a) withdrawn whilst four routes  (73, 135, 208 and X74) have cuts.  In addition there is the M17 not listed that has already had cuts and no longer runs on Saturdays or mid afternoon. There are also  two routes where the operator is changing  (44 and 76a). Not a huge list to be fair and they are clearly making a political song and dance about it to try and get some more money out of the government after they declined to fund South Yorkshires Bus Service Improvement Plan after the budget for the government's "Bus Back Better" scheme was slashed.

 

However potentially there will be huge cuts to services previously operated commercially come October when the Covid money runs out unless passenger numbers recover or new funding is found.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Andy C

[RollingJ 1,999]

7 minutes ago, Andy C said:

just to be pedantic....

 

it isn't SYPTE anymore, it is SYMCA (South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority). The organisation led by the mayor elect, Oliver Coppard, which is responsible for a number of things in the region including transport.

 

 

 

........

Does that mean we don't have to fund SYPTE any more - or at least not such a big (useless) monster?

[Andy C 85]

1 minute ago, RollingJ said:

Does that mean we don't have to fund SYPTE any more - or at least not such a big (useless) monster?

Basically what was SYPTE is now part of SYMCA and the mayor is their new boss so as I say, just being pedantic!

[RollingJ 1,999]

2 minutes ago, Andy C said:

Basically what was SYPTE is now part of SYMCA and the mayor is their new boss so as I say, just being pedantic!

I bet they haven't got rid of any of the dead wood/top brass in the PTE bit, though. 🤨