Midland Mainline Electrification Planning Started Again.

[RollingJ 2,042]

8 hours ago, Hopman said:

Our railways are a disgrace. Compare the following:

It takes an average of 2h 3m to travel from Paris to Lyon by train, over a distance of around 243 miles (391 km). There are normally 35 trains per day travelling from Paris to Lyon and tickets for this journey start from £9.11 when you book in advance.

Sheffield to St Pancras - over 2 hours 160 miles fares from £37 up to over £100 single

I suspect French Rail (SNCF and the others) are heavily subsidised - haven't the time today to check- maybe @Annie Bynnolcould comment?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

17 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

I suspect French Rail (SNCF and the others) are heavily subsidised - haven't the time today to check- maybe @Annie Bynnolcould comment?

The comparison is difficult but to start with long distance train operating companies in France, UK and Germany do not receive subsidies. Several books could be written about this but here are some of the reasons stated for UK fares being  higher:

• The Government set the fares- sometimes to deter demand.
• Government require fares to rise above inflation every year.
• The speed, punctuality, 'newness' of  the French and German systems attract far more premium paying passengers.
• The UK train operating companies pay far more to shareholders(including the Government), franchise payments to the Government, for the hiring, leasing and maintaining their rolling stock, to Network Rail for track and signalling.
• The UK operates a 'walk on' on nearly all services while the equivalent services in France and Germany are reserved and segregated from local and regional users.
• We have a multi company built Victorian infrastructure, they have a national post war infrastructure.

 

Subsidy:

UK £-0.6 billion or  £+3-5 billion if London commuter subsidies included. 

France £12 billion.

 

Other figures include London commuter subsidies of around £3-5 billion.

The costs of new building in France are much reduced  due to allied bombing and the rural routes and English politics.

Network Rail don't know from year to year what capital expenditure they have.

The few remaining capable contractors in the UK charge much more as they cannot maintain an efficient pool of equipment and expertise( hence why the current MML plans are popular with the Treasury and Network Rail).

British manufactures are faced with continual changes to British standards and previous sub standard schemes such as the WCML, ECML and Bed-Pan.

 

Fare comparisons are highly unfair as the fare structures in the UK starts very much higher but off peak return, Advance fares and Rail Card discounts can make travel here cheaper. My cheapest Sheffield London ticket in August is £13. 96 and £19 45 First Class. I paid £26 first class return two weeks ago. 

 

 

 

[Arthur Ritus 30]

A lot of houses have been built by the railway line they might not like the disruption as new overheads would have to be installed for the electrickery    🤨.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

1 hour ago, Arthur Ritus said:

A lot of houses have been built by the railway line they might not like the disruption as new overheads would have to be installed for the electrickery    🤨.

The owners of a "... lot of houses (that) have been built by the railway line..." would have known that plans for electrification of railways go back decades. 

The owners will suffer during the few weeks of piling then benefit from the reduction in noise, vibration, smell, air pollution etc.

Which houses?

[Baron99 801]

Let's face it.  By the time there is an electrified line we'll all be using personal jet packs. 

[Arthur Ritus 30]

3 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The owners of a "... lot of houses (that) have been built by the railway line..." would have known that plans for electrification of railways go back decades. 

The owners will suffer during the few weeks of piling then benefit from the reduction in noise, vibration, smell, air pollution etc.

Which houses?

I think your missing the nimby dig, the person not wanting the electrification near their house was advocating the same elsewhere, there are new houses next to the line at Oughtibridge with the new developments at Wharncliffe side and Deepcar all whom really should  benefit from re opening the line in whatever means, real electric trains preferably. 

[Baron99 801]

Have a look down Abbeydale Road & other railway lines into Midland Station.  

 

People have been happily living in & buying homes next to railway lines for a good hundred years. 

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

Matthew Parris said, in The Times (a year or two ago), that the same grumbles about property's possible devaluation were made by nearby owners when the canal system was being planned some three centuries ago. Nothing changes!

[Sheff.Expat 1]

Complaining about electification work when you live next to a railway is ridiculous. First of all, why live next to a railway line anyway? Lower house prices, I guess. Anyway, I'd be happy to endure disruption for a while (months?) if it meant drastically reduce air pollution in the long run. Let's not forget that the area around Sheffield Station has atrocious air quality...hence why we REALLY need electrification overall. 

[DavidFrance 19]

I will make my last comment on this just for Annie Bynol. I respect your clear commitment to the policy. But for the next few weeks I will be living in Hampshire in a house very close to the Southampton/Waterloo line. I will hear trains every few minutes. But only just,  because the trains are quiet and quick. I may hear some cross country diesel hauled services they are slower and louder as they head south from Basingstoke Junction. (Travelling far out of their way via Reading thanks to Beeching) I will hear the many diesel hauled container trains from Soton Docks, knowing they are constrained by the narrow and inadequate Micheldever Tunnels. And on at least one occasion I will travel into London , 40 miles in 40 minutes in quiet, clean comfort. Just as I did when I commuted every day to produce a transport programme on  Radio Four. 

If Lincoln, Gainsborough, Worksop, Brigg, Scunthorpe, Doncaster, Rotherham, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester, Leeds, Chesterfield, Nottingham etc etc etc had a similar network the North would not need that rebalancing.   Like I said, your comment looks very much like a Conservative Party ploy. 

[Man in Crete 104]

On 31/05/2022 at 20:14, DavidFrance said:

I still say and keep on saying that Third Rail electrification is cheaper to install, less unsightly (in fact not at all unsightly), that 100 mph is plenty fast enough and that for over a century millions of people have been commuting in and out of The Capital on Southern region third rail electrified trains. With third rail the entire rail network from east coast to west coast could be electrified for about the same cost as the Midland Mainline route....if it ever happens. And in Sheffield tramtrains would be perfect for Stockbridge, Chesterfield, Killamarsh etc etc. All we need is a 10 year socialist, realist government. 

But we had 13 years of sir tony Blair etal and they were no better than the current lot

as for your monologues on 3rd rail words fail me! In todays world 3rd rail will never make a comeback too many disadvantages to list here!

[Annie Bynnol 612]

1 hour ago, LovePotion said:

Just think about how delayed Crossrail was! And HS2! I doubt it would just be months of disruption.

The electric trains will be running next year- not a guess or a wish -a fact.

The electrification is already nearly half done.

The wires have already gone past Kettering and will have reached Market Harborough within the next few months.

As the trains go further North they can switch to diesel and so gradually the wires can be extended first to Leicester then Nottingham/Derby and eventually Sheffield.

 

Unlike other major schemes the work does not progress in several places at once but progresses northward, which means that each completed section can come into use. Cleverer is avoiding any announcements of cost or dates so nothing will be delayed. It will be slow but it does mean that the gangs, their equipment and expertise can be kept together.