Chekhov 464 #1 Posted May 24, 2022 I have zero sympathy for the train drivers. Let's face it they are over paid anyway, and I define that not just by the rumoured £50k plus they get paid, but by the fact by their wages are not being set by supply and demand of labour (like almost everyone else, why are they so special ?) but by the fact they have industrial muscle (as in they can hugely inconvenience millions of people). In my view there is an argument they, as a public service, should not be able to go on strike. They may then lose the right to strike, but they will still retain the ultimate right to leave and get another job somewhere else. If the RMT / ASLEF think their jobs are all so special let's see how much the market pays them, then we will see they have no clothes. I wonder how much sympathy they will get when there are so many people really struggling, or will be really struggling in the not too distant future. The fact is that for the vast majority of people it's the market that sets the wages, supply and demand. Which is why a footballer can be paid millions and a carer just the minimum wage* , and also why just recently truck drivers (and to a lesser extent bus drivers) got big wage rises. If people want more money they either have to do more hours, get promotion or get another job, why should train staff be any different ? Even worse they severely inconvenience millions of people who have no part in their dispute. It's inexcusable. *not that I think the minimum wage is peanuts anymore, it's nearly £10 an hour, 25% more than I got when I started on as an assistant manager in a tool hire shop (adjusted for inflation). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell 862 #2 Posted May 24, 2022 Do you ever post anything that's not a whinge? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
carosio 173 #3 Posted May 24, 2022 47 minutes ago, Chekhov said: *not that I think the minimum wage is peanuts anymore, it's nearly £10 an hour, 25% more than I got when I started on as an assistant manager in a tool hire shop (adjusted for inflation). When I was working for a retail store in 2013, wage was £6.20/hr. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #4 Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Chekhov said: I have zero sympathy for the train drivers. Let's face it they are over paid anyway, and I define that not just by the rumoured £50k plus they get paid, but by the fact by their wages are not being set by supply and demand of labour (like almost everyone else, why are they so special ?) but by the fact they have industrial muscle (as in they can hugely inconvenience millions of people). In my view there is an argument they, as a public service, should not be able to go on strike. They may then lose the right to strike, but they will still retain the ultimate right to leave and get another job somewhere else. If the RMT / ASLEF think their jobs are all so special let's see how much the market pays them, then we will see they have no clothes. I wonder how much sympathy they will get when there are so many people really struggling, or will be really struggling in the not too distant future. The fact is that for the vast majority of people it's the market that sets the wages, supply and demand. Which is why a footballer can be paid millions and a carer just the minimum wage* , and also why just recently truck drivers (and to a lesser extent bus drivers) got big wage rises. If people want more money they either have to do more hours, get promotion or get another job, why should train staff be any different ? Even worse they severely inconvenience millions of people who have no part in their dispute. It's inexcusable. *not that I think the minimum wage is peanuts anymore, it's nearly £10 an hour, 25% more than I got when I started on as an assistant manager in a tool hire shop (adjusted for inflation). Train transport in the UK stopped being a public service decades ago, it is a private service. So a more productive approach to vent about privately-employed staff, would be to air your views with their management at private railway operators (and escalate to their respective shareholders if needed). Who knows, they may even put extra buses in service during said strikes, to ensure that travellers can still go from A to B. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ 1,796 #5 Posted May 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, L00b said: Train transport in the UK stopped being a public service decades ago, it is a private service. So a more productive approach to vent about privately-employed staff, would be to air your views with their management at private railway operators (and escalate to their respective shareholders if needed). Who knows, they may even put extra buses in service during said strikes, to ensure that travellers can still go from A to B. Unless I have been totally misinformed about the way the rail network is provisioned in the UK, it is a 'franchise' model, still untimately controlled by the DfT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #6 Posted May 24, 2022 Just now, RollingJ said: Unless I have been totally misinformed about the way the rail network is provisioned in the UK, it is a 'franchise' model, still untimately controlled by the DfT. Does that ‘control’ amount to making the provision of train transport a publicly-funded activity in the UK? Who employs and pays the train drivers whom Chekhov is complaining about? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
RollingJ 1,796 #7 Posted May 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, L00b said: Does that ‘control’ amount to making the provision of train transport a publicly-funded activity in the UK? Who employs and pays the train drivers whom Chekhov is complaining about? Not all of it no, although at least two of the areas (Northern being one, cba at the moment to research the other(s)) are. Obviously, the individual franchise holders pay the staff - RMT/ASLEF/TSSA and others who work on the franchises they hold - standard practice, I would have thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b 441 #8 Posted May 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, RollingJ said: Not all of it no, although at least two of the areas (Northern being one, cba at the moment to research the other(s)) are. Obviously, the individual franchise holders pay the staff - RMT/ASLEF/TSSA and others who work on the franchises they hold - standard practice, I would have thought. Correct, and thanks for the mitigating opinion, RollingJ 😊 Doesn’t change the fundamental point of reply, however 😉 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Chekhov 464 #9 Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, L00b said: Train transport in the UK stopped being a public service decades ago, it is a private service. So a more productive approach to vent about privately-employed staff, would be to air your views with their management at private railway operators (and escalate to their respective shareholders if needed). Who knows, they may even put extra buses in service during said strikes, to ensure that travellers can still go from A to B. Anything which millions of people need to get to work (or play for that matter) and which, in addition, is heavily subsidised by the British tax payer, qualifies closely enough for that description. Certainly closely enough to mean strikes should be banned. You may have more of an argument if all the train operating companies had different unions, but they do not because we know they would have far less power were that the case. No, the unions regard it as a fair tactic to get all train drivers out and therefore they regard it as a national service. A national service which, as stated earlier, is heavily subsidised by tax payers. Edited May 24, 2022 by Chekhov Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Ethella 14 #10 Posted May 24, 2022 I've never understood why people punish the customer's that they rely on for their own employment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest sibon #11 Posted May 24, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Chekhov said: I have zero sympathy for the train drivers. Let's face it they are over paid anyway, and I define that not just by the rumoured £50k plus they get paid, but by the fact by their wages are not being set by supply and demand of labour (like almost everyone else, why are they so special ?) but by the fact they have industrial muscle (as in they can hugely inconvenience millions of people). In my view there is an argument they, as a public service, should not be able to go on strike. They may then lose the right to strike, but they will still retain the ultimate right to leave and get another job somewhere else. If the RMT / ASLEF think their jobs are all so special let's see how much the market pays them, then we will see they have no clothes. I wonder how much sympathy they will get when there are so many people really struggling, or will be really struggling in the not too distant future. The fact is that for the vast majority of people it's the market that sets the wages, supply and demand. Which is why a footballer can be paid millions and a carer just the minimum wage* , and also why just recently truck drivers (and to a lesser extent bus drivers) got big wage rises. If people want more money they either have to do more hours, get promotion or get another job, why should train staff be any different ? Even worse they severely inconvenience millions of people who have no part in their dispute. It's inexcusable. *not that I think the minimum wage is peanuts anymore, it's nearly £10 an hour, 25% more than I got when I started on as an assistant manager in a tool hire shop (adjusted for inflation). Who would have thought that Checkov, the libertarian, would become a suppressionist so easily. Edited May 24, 2022 by sibon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B 1,334 #12 Posted May 24, 2022 I'm finding this thread quite amusing in an ironic kind of way. This 'Summer of discontent' is nothing compared to the Winter of Discontent we are going to see when the cold weather's here and people start dying of hypothermia and food shortages. If I can see it coming so can the politicians, yet they are doing nothing to prevent it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...