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Vegans V Vegetarians

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22 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Interesting discussion on the radio last night, which reflected the grievances my wife (who is a vegetarian, well pescatarian actually) has been having for a few years.

Despite the fact more people are supposed to be going meat free in their diet it is actually becoming harder to get tasty vegetarian meals at restaurants, on planes etc.

How can that be ?

Well it's because many eateries are just offering vegan alternatives (i.e. no milk, cheese, eggs etc) in order to make it easier for them. They think vegetarians can eat vegan food but not necessarily the other way around, so just offer vegan. But that's cobblers because on that basis why not go the whole hog (not literally, for vegetarians anyway) and just offer vegan meals for everyone, after all, meat eaters can eat vegan food (if they absolutely have to ! ) can't they ?

In fact the representative of some vegan society was supporting just offering vegan alternatives in the aforementioned radio discussion. Well she would wouldn't she, if she was being selfish that is, she gets what she wants so sod everyone else.

 

Vegetarians are about 6% of the UK population, pescatarians (who eat fish) account for a further 5%, but Vegans are only 3%.

The tail is wagging the dog here I feel.

That's your life's motto isn't it?

 

Spare us the faux outrage.

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Posted (edited)

Chekhov said:
And that is why I am so annoyed with that woman from the Vegan Society (or whatever they call themselves) for saying "it's fine for eateries to just provide vegan options because vegetarians can also eat that", she's a selfish ******.

10 hours ago, Norbert said:

I hardly think she's being selfish. Her whole ethos is thinking about the appalling conditions that animals endure to bring us eggs & milk, so I imagine she is promoting what's best for the animals, not herself. 

That is not the direction she was arguing from, she was saying it was fine for eateries to just offer vegan food because vegetarians can eat it, implying they are happy to just be offered vegan alternatives and there is no problem. Well there is a problem and her argument is patently just self centred "I'm alright Jack" twaddle.

It is a separate argument that everyone should be forced to eat a vegan diet because that is what she thinks people should do.

 

2 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Spare us the faux outrage.

Err, I'm not a vegetarian.

Edited by Chekhov

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Chekhov said:

That is not the direction she was arguing from, she was saying it was fine for eateries to just offer vegan food because vegetarians can eat it, implying they are happy to just be offered vegan alternatives and there is no problem. Well there is a problem and her argument is patently just self centred "I'm alright Jack" twaddle.

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

Edited by CaptainSwing

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21 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

I agree with this. Most veggies eat a lot of vegan food anyway. It's certainly better than the days when you had to hunt around for anything you could eat.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

 

14 minutes ago, altus said:

I agree with this. Most veggies eat a lot of vegan food anyway. It's certainly better than the days when you had to hunt around for anything you could eat.

Are you saying vegan food is as nice as vegetarian food despite the fact it is significantly more restrictive in its choice of ingredients ? Of course it isn't, in which case, on the margin, you may be putting some people off becoming vegetarian at all if they can only get vegan meals when they're out. I'd have thought if one doesn't eat meat then cheese and eggs etc would be basis of most alternative recipes (though I admit I've never been that keen on vegetables....).

 

But, if you really do like vegan food as much as vegetarian food, why don't you just become  a vegan ?

Edited by Chekhov

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5 minutes ago, altus said:

I agree with this. Most veggies eat a lot of vegan food anyway. It's certainly better than the days when you had to hunt around for anything you could eat.

Hmmm... :huh:


I'm not sure if it's just me that's seeing double meanings in a lot of the posts on here these days...


... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt! :thumbsup:
 

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7 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

 

Are you saying vegan food is as nice as vegetarian food despite the fact it is significantly more restrictive in its choice of ingredients ? I'd have thought if one doesn't eat meat cheese and eggs etc would be basis of most alternative recipes (though I admit I've never been that keen on vegetables....).

But, if you like vegan food as much as vegetarian food, why don't you just become  a vegan ?

In the same way that most omnivores don't feel a need to have meat as part of every meal they eat, most vegetarians don't feel a need to have dairy/eggs as part of every meal they eat.

 

It's quite clear you don't have a clue what vegetarians actually do eat and are making assumptions from your own, "never been that keen on vegetables" perspective. Perhaps you should find out what typical vegetarians actually do eat rather than getting worked up on their behalf about something that they really aren't that bothered about.

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1 hour ago, CaptainSwing said:

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

I agree with this, I've been veggie for most of my life (had a stint at been vegan but did miss eggs!) - can't speak for others but I personally really don't mind if it's just vegan options as the alternative to meat, least it then caters for both veggie & vegans. 

 

Quite a few places do offer both veggie and vegan options - thinking of Icarus & Apollo at food markets, food is delicious can have it vegan or add halloumi if wanted for example. 

 

Also not sure if anyone has tried the food at Make No Bones or Church but they are fully vegan & absolutely delicious. 

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39 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

 

Are you saying vegan food is as nice as vegetarian food despite the fact it is significantly more restrictive in its choice of ingredients ? Of course it isn't, in which case, on the margin, you may be putting some people off becoming vegetarian at all if they can only get vegan meals when they're out. I'd have thought if one doesn't eat meat then cheese and eggs etc would be basis of most alternative recipes (though I admit I've never been that keen on vegetables....).

 

But, if you really do like vegan food as much as vegetarian food, why don't you just become  a vegan ?

Well, that wasn't the question.  The question was whether a vegetarian would object to an all-vegan menu in a restaurant etc., and, speaking personally, the answer is no.  And yes, vegan food can be just as tasty as other vegetarian food - that's more a function of how good the cook is than whether the ingredients are vegan or not.

 

Apart from the occasional macaroni cheese that I make for the kids, cheese and eggs don't form the basis of anything I cook.

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7 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Chekhov said:
And that is why I am so annoyed with that woman from the Vegan Society (or whatever they call themselves) for saying "it's fine for eateries to just provide vegan options because vegetarians can also eat that", she's a selfish ******.

That is not the direction she was arguing from, she was saying it was fine for eateries to just offer vegan food because vegetarians can eat it, implying they are happy to just be offered vegan alternatives and there is no problem. Well there is a problem and her argument is patently just self centred "I'm alright Jack" twaddle.

It is a separate argument that everyone should be forced to eat a vegan diet because that is what she thinks people should do.

 

Err, I'm not a vegetarian.

Err, why are you on here being offended about someone else's alleged problem then.

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1 hour ago, Bargepole23 said:

Err, why are you on here being offended about someone else's alleged problem then.

It's his job.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, altus said:

In the same way that most omnivores don't feel a need to have meat as part of every meal they eat, most vegetarians don't feel a need to have dairy/eggs as part of every meal they eat.

 

It's quite clear you don't have a clue what vegetarians actually do eat and are making assumptions from your own, "never been that keen on vegetables" perspective. Perhaps you should find out what typical vegetarians actually do eat rather than getting worked up on their behalf about something that they really aren't that bothered about.

That is an arrogant thing to say. My wife does not eat meat and she is not happy about the veggie options at more and more eateries being vegan*. They do it because it is easier for them, despite the fact that :

1 - Many vegetarians are not happy at only being given vegan options, and

2 - There are a lot more vegetarians (and pescatarians) than vegans

 

* She is not on her own as an article on BBC R4's PM reported the other night.

3 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

Well, that wasn't the question.  The question was whether a vegetarian would object to an all-vegan menu in a restaurant etc., and, speaking personally, the answer is no. 

Can't argue with that.

Edited by Chekhov

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