Vegans V Vegetarians

[Chekhov 488]

Chekhov said:
And that is why I am so annoyed with that woman from the Vegan Society (or whatever they call themselves) for saying "it's fine for eateries to just provide vegan options because vegetarians can also eat that", she's a selfish ******.

10 hours ago, Norbert said:

I hardly think she's being selfish. Her whole ethos is thinking about the appalling conditions that animals endure to bring us eggs & milk, so I imagine she is promoting what's best for the animals, not herself. 

That is not the direction she was arguing from, she was saying it was fine for eateries to just offer vegan food because vegetarians can eat it, implying they are happy to just be offered vegan alternatives and there is no problem. Well there is a problem and her argument is patently just self centred "I'm alright Jack" twaddle.

It is a separate argument that everyone should be forced to eat a vegan diet because that is what she thinks people should do.

 

2 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Spare us the faux outrage.

Err, I'm not a vegetarian.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Chekhov

[altus 540]

21 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

I agree with this. Most veggies eat a lot of vegan food anyway. It's certainly better than the days when you had to hunt around for anything you could eat.

[Chekhov 488]

49 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

 

14 minutes ago, altus said:

I agree with this. Most veggies eat a lot of vegan food anyway. It's certainly better than the days when you had to hunt around for anything you could eat.

Are you saying vegan food is as nice as vegetarian food despite the fact it is significantly more restrictive in its choice of ingredients ? Of course it isn't, in which case, on the margin, you may be putting some people off becoming vegetarian at all if they can only get vegan meals when they're out. I'd have thought if one doesn't eat meat then cheese and eggs etc would be basis of most alternative recipes (though I admit I've never been that keen on vegetables....).

 

But, if you really do like vegan food as much as vegetarian food, why don't you just become  a vegan ?

Edited May 11, 2022 by Chekhov

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

5 minutes ago, altus said:

I agree with this. Most veggies eat a lot of vegan food anyway. It's certainly better than the days when you had to hunt around for anything you could eat.

Hmmm...

I'm not sure if it's just me that's seeing double meanings in a lot of the posts on here these days...

... but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt!
 

[altus 540]

7 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

 

Are you saying vegan food is as nice as vegetarian food despite the fact it is significantly more restrictive in its choice of ingredients ? I'd have thought if one doesn't eat meat cheese and eggs etc would be basis of most alternative recipes (though I admit I've never been that keen on vegetables....).

But, if you like vegan food as much as vegetarian food, why don't you just become  a vegan ?

In the same way that most omnivores don't feel a need to have meat as part of every meal they eat, most vegetarians don't feel a need to have dairy/eggs as part of every meal they eat.

 

It's quite clear you don't have a clue what vegetarians actually do eat and are making assumptions from your own, "never been that keen on vegetables" perspective. Perhaps you should find out what typical vegetarians actually do eat rather than getting worked up on their behalf about something that they really aren't that bothered about.

[SFBeca 194]

1 hour ago, CaptainSwing said:

I don't think there is a problem.  Can't speak for other people, but I've been vegetarian most of my life, and I wouldn't mind if all the vegetarian options were vegan ones.  In fact I'd probably prefer it, as you could be fairly sure that the caterer at least knew what 'vegetarian' and 'vegan' meant.  As  @altus says, a bigger problem is caterers who think that fish or seafood products are OK for vegetarians, like oyster sauce that has real oysters in it.  But those caterers are few and far between these days, in my experience.

I agree with this, I've been veggie for most of my life (had a stint at been vegan but did miss eggs!) - can't speak for others but I personally really don't mind if it's just vegan options as the alternative to meat, least it then caters for both veggie & vegans. 

 

Quite a few places do offer both veggie and vegan options - thinking of Icarus & Apollo at food markets, food is delicious can have it vegan or add halloumi if wanted for example. 

 

Also not sure if anyone has tried the food at Make No Bones or Church but they are fully vegan & absolutely delicious. 

[Bargepole23 337]

7 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Chekhov said:
And that is why I am so annoyed with that woman from the Vegan Society (or whatever they call themselves) for saying "it's fine for eateries to just provide vegan options because vegetarians can also eat that", she's a selfish ******.

That is not the direction she was arguing from, she was saying it was fine for eateries to just offer vegan food because vegetarians can eat it, implying they are happy to just be offered vegan alternatives and there is no problem. Well there is a problem and her argument is patently just self centred "I'm alright Jack" twaddle.

It is a separate argument that everyone should be forced to eat a vegan diet because that is what she thinks people should do.

 

Err, I'm not a vegetarian.

Err, why are you on here being offended about someone else's alleged problem then.

[cgksheff 44]

1 hour ago, Bargepole23 said:

Err, why are you on here being offended about someone else's alleged problem then.

It's his job.

[Chekhov 488]

4 hours ago, altus said:

In the same way that most omnivores don't feel a need to have meat as part of every meal they eat, most vegetarians don't feel a need to have dairy/eggs as part of every meal they eat.

 

It's quite clear you don't have a clue what vegetarians actually do eat and are making assumptions from your own, "never been that keen on vegetables" perspective. Perhaps you should find out what typical vegetarians actually do eat rather than getting worked up on their behalf about something that they really aren't that bothered about.

That is an arrogant thing to say. My wife does not eat meat and she is not happy about the veggie options at more and more eateries being vegan*. They do it because it is easier for them, despite the fact that :

1 - Many vegetarians are not happy at only being given vegan options, and

2 - There are a lot more vegetarians (and pescatarians) than vegans

 

* She is not on her own as an article on BBC R4's PM reported the other night.

3 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

Well, that wasn't the question.  The question was whether a vegetarian would object to an all-vegan menu in a restaurant etc., and, speaking personally, the answer is no. 

Can't argue with that.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Chekhov

[Chekhov 488]

3 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

And yes, vegan food can be just as tasty as other vegetarian food - that's more a function of how good the cook is than whether the ingredients are vegan or not.

How can food be just as tasty (and varied) if you are severely limiting what you can put into it ?

And these lazy caterers are not doing so for any ethical reasons but purely to make it easier for them.

As I have said before, if they are so certain that vegetarians are happy to eat vegan food "because they can", why don't they go the whole hog and just offer meat eaters vegan options ?

[Chekhov 488]

3 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Err, why are you on here being offended about someone else's alleged problem then.

Partly because my wife is annoyed by it (and an unhappy wife makes for an unhappy husband) and partly because I am an idealist and it is so obviously unreasonable.

And it is not "alleged", you patently did not listen to the article on the radio the other day.

And when (back in 2019 when we were actually free to do so) we pushed the boat out for a Premium Economy flight to Taiwan and my wife was served a vegan dish (basically vegetables in tomato sauce) I don't think she would have taken kindly to you saying it is a "non problem".

Edited May 11, 2022 by Chekhov

[Guest sibon]

It isn't unreasonable though. Restaurants operate in a free market. Don't like it? Eat elsewhere.

 

You can't go to McDonald's and get pizza, you get what they serve.  Their business, their choice.

 

There are thousands of Restaurants locally. Choose one with food you like and stop whining about the choices that others make.