Let's Get Rid Of All Religions! good idea?

[Waldo 96]

16 minutes ago, Baz1 said:

That's how I find it and once you sincerely look for answers and truly seek to know- you'll find your calling.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but this, perhaps, sounds a little troubling. As if it presupposes there is something to find, and if you're not finding that thing, it's because you're not sincerely looking. Perhaps I misjudge or misinterpret, not for the first time mind!

 

Anyhoo.

 

Call me suspicious, but all kinds of divisive rhetoric is employed to recruit more people to a religion, a cause, or a calling! The thing is, to my mind, there is no form it should or can take, nothing to find, nothing to lose.

 

I found this on the internet, I have no idea what it means, but it sounds cool.

 

Quote

As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect. They say with those foolish Israelites, 'Let not God speak to us, lest we die. Speak thou, speak any man with us, and we will obey.' Everywhere I am hindered of meeting God in my brother, because he has shut his own temple doors, and recites fables merely of his brother's, or his brother's brother's God. Every new mind is a new classification. If it prove a mind of uncommon activity and power, a Locke, a Lavoisier, a Hutton, a Bentham, a Fourier, it imposes its classification on other men, and lo! a new system. In proportion to the depth of the thought, and so to the number of the objects it touches and brings within reach of the pupil, is his complacency. But chiefly is this apparent in creeds and churches, which are also classifications of some powerful mind acting on the elemental thought of duty, and man's relation to the Highest. Such is Calvinism, Quakerism, Swedenborgism. The pupil takes the same delight in subordinating every thing to the new terminology, as a girl who has just learned botany in seeing a new earth and new seasons thereby. It will happen for a time, that the pupil will find his intellectual power has grown by the study of his master's mind. But in all unbalanced minds, the classification is idolized, passes for the end, and not for a speedily exhaustible means, so that the walls of the system blend to their eye in the remote horizon with the walls of the universe; the luminaries of heaven seem to them hung on the arch their master built. They cannot imagine how you aliens have any right to see,--how you can see; 'It must be somehow that you stole the light from us.' They do not yet perceive, that light, unsystematic, indomitable, will break into any cabin, even into theirs. Let them chirp awhile and call it their own. If they are honest and do well, presently their neat new pinfold will be too strait and low, will crack, will lean, will rot and vanish, and the immortal light, all young and joyful, million-orbed, million-colored, will beam over the universe as on the first morning.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Waldo

[Anna B 1,401]

4 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I find it interesting how people conceive of God.

 

If you consider God to be a being, does this being exist within some context; such that there is something that is God, and something that is not God, within which God the being, exists? Similar to how I am a human being, who exists within the context of the universe, specifically located on planet Earth; there is me, and there is not me (though of course, ultimately, we are all manifestations of the universe doing its thing).

 

Or does God represent the totality of reality, the universe, or all universes, laws of physics, everything manifest and all non physical realms of existence; so, essentially, God being synonymous with 'everything'?

 

Do people who believe in God, ask themselves such things?

 

I think I used to believe in God (or at least entertained the notion), but I feel there was an element of wishful (people believe whatever they want to be true, as it gives them some comfort) and fuzzy thinking. The more light I shone on the topic, the more I examined it, the bubble kind of burst for me. I would think, Ignostic, perhaps best describes my theological position now. God is a meaningless fuzzy term; it doesn't really hold any value or usefulness for me. I doesn't point at anything meaningful or concrete that the human mind can make any sense of.

 

Not employing the word God, however, does not at all negate or detract from the nature of reality; whatever form it may take. What is, the nature of reality, simply is; it is, in my experience, unfathomably mysterious, but it doesn't require me to call it anything, or stick some label on it.

Well I do. All the time. 

I use the word 'God' simply as a shortcut to mean all those things and more.

As for imagining him as a being, I think that's because that's natural as it's a notion we know and are comfortable with, but is probably meaningless. I don't think we are meant to know, or have any idea of God other than as a power greater than ourselves that transcends everything we think we know. He is literally all things to all men/people which is what makes the notion so appealing. 

 

I know what you mean about wishful thinking, but then every society, everywhere on earth since the beginning of time has the same experience /need. It seems to be something we are born with, and scientific experiments have been done to prove this. That in no way proves 'he' exsists, but it seems odd that we all have this universal inbuilt need if there's nothing there to provoke it. 

 

There are many millions of people who have had experiences that claim enlightenment, and 'knowing' God. All colours and creeds have had experiences that can't be explained, and there are holy men and women in every century.  

Many people will say this is rubbish, but that doesn't make any difference to me, nothing can dislodge that memory from my mind. No I can't prove anything, yes some things can be explained away, and might be explained by future science, but not everything.

Science is now delving into quantum physics, multiple Universes, quarks being both present and absent at the same time etc; ideas that are overturning the accepted laws of nature and starting to merge with long held views in theology and philosophy.

Science, rather than bringing answers, just seems to raise. even more complicated questions.

 

And, to be cynical, I bet all those non believers would still call out to god if they found themselves in mortal danger - 'just in case...'

[Waldo 96]

@Anna B and @Baz1

 

Thank you for taking the time to replay; I hope I don't come across as being too blunt or rude. I fear sometimes I do. I suspect I am infected with the 'I see it a certain way, everyone else should see it my way' syndrome (bet I'm not the only one infected with that particular syndrome). Who knows.

 

Anyhow.

 

One thing I aspire to, is theological tolerance; we all have different theological positions and view points, for any number of reasons; all people are on their own individual journeys of self discovery; it's not really important who is ahead or behind; we are all where we are, and should respect there is a natural growth, change, evolution for each individual being.

 

I suspect, the more evolved an individual is, the more compassionate and accepting of other people, and of this natural process, we become.

[Anna B 1,401]

4 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

An odd thing for a Trump supporter to say, given that he (or his associates) staged an admittedly half-assed coup attempt to try and overturn a democratic election that he lost by 74 college votes or 7 million actual votes.  That is, by supporting him, you give the impression that you'd have been quite happy with an unelected president.

 

[I know you are unlikely to raise this question, but, just in case, no I don't particularly approve of Biden  or the DNC either.]

 

Yes, I've never been able to understand how somebody could 'worship' something they can't even define.

The fact they can't define Him, pin him/it down  is part of the mystery surely?

I'm not sure about the word 'worship' either.

Is being in awe of something you can't properly define, necessarily worship?

Can you not be thankful and full of awe and wonder at the world without worship.

But then again who are you saying thankyou to?

Edited April 20, 2022 by Anna B

[crookesey 631]

The early Russian Communists would have had us believe that they had ‘abolished’ God, all that they actually achieved is to send religion underground.

[Baz1 28]

12 minutes ago, crookesey said:

The early Russian Communists would have had us believe that they had ‘abolished’ God, all that they actually achieved is to send religion underground.

I recall studying into this a long time ago- and the overall view I got was mankind has a natural inclination to believe in God.

 

You can never stop people believing in a higher power, God/ Being or whichever concept you might have of it.

 

There are some studies about being pre wired to believe in God- and that's why the God question never goes away!

[Waldo 96]

I would think it natural for our species to ask why, to query why we are here, why we exist, why anything exists at all, etc etc.

 

I think we are also somewhat adverse to ambiguity and uncertainty, so when we ask ourselves such questions, we almost have a psychological need to come up with an answer.

Edited April 21, 2022 by Waldo

[Baz1 28]

7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I would think it natural for our species to ask why, to query why we are here, why we exist, why anything exists at all, etc etc.

 

I think we are also somewhat adverse to ambiguity and uncertainty, so when we ask ourselves such questions, we almost have a psychological need to come up with an answer.

'Natural' or possibly programmed to think, ask, question and discover 🤔 

[Waldo 96]

1 hour ago, Baz1 said:

'Natural' or possibly programmed to think, ask, question and discover 🤔 

‘discover’ or just coming up with whatever answer makes us feel good?

Edited April 21, 2022 by Waldo

[trastrick 866]

18 hours ago, CaptainSwing said:

An odd thing for a Trump supporter to say, given that he (or his associates) staged an admittedly half-assed coup attempt to try and overturn a democratic election that he lost by 74 college votes or 7 million actual votes.  That is, by supporting him, you give the impression that you'd have been quite happy with an unelected president.

I would advise you not to rush to judgement.

 

Forthe record, I'm a supporter of Trump's domestic (energy independence) and foreign policies (peace through strength) which brought domestic prosperity, and relative world peace, and no new wars, while he was in office.

 

Your "half assed 'coup'" is still being investigated, by the same folks who tried and failed to convict Trump in 2 Impeachments, 2 years of Special Prosecutor Investigation,  4 years of Congressional Investigations, 4 years of State Attorneys-General,  Investigations into his financial and tax affairs.

 

This latest (January 6) witch hunt is still in process, and I doubt the outcome will be any different.

 

They have yet to come up with any charge in a Court of Law.

 

Which leads me to believe that Trump is either the smartest politician in America, or the cleanest. I suspect it's a little of both.

 

It was a legally approved rally on the Mall, that turned into a riot, similar to the BLM protests that turned into riots, but with far less victims, destruction of government buildings, 'an estimated $2billion in damages with thousands arrested' - USA Today

 

The only shot fired, on January 6, was by the Capitol policeman who shot an unarmed woman.

 

If the conspiracy theorists want a 'real' coup, they should wait until the John Durham Criminal Investigation into the "Russian Collusion" hoax, is completed.

 

As to god. Some people need a crutch to get through life. Some need a Satan, to blame for all their ills. Others don't.

 

But science can't explain why something can come from nothing, and chaos can not produce life and  the strictly ordered and predictable universe we see, that actually defies the scientific concept of entropy. We can observe, and utilize the physical laws we see, but can never step above our lowly station and answer the Big Questions, How and Why we are here.

 

It's all good!

Edited April 21, 2022 by trastrick

[Jack Grey 1,602]

Watch this comment from Douglas Murray

 

https://youtu.be/QCJUEqppqNk

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Jack Grey

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

10 minutes ago, CaptainSwing said:

The notion that the phenomena of life are somehow inconsistent with the second law of thermodynamics was dispelled by Schroedinger back in 1944.  Entropy can decrease locally so long it increases somewhere else - it's the entropy of the universe as a whole that never decreases.

 

[In fact, to be more precise, you apparently have to talk about free energy rather than entropy, but I get the drift.  There may or may not be holes in the current state of knowledge, but this isn't one of them.]

Hmmm...

Wasn't he that bloke who didn't know if he had a cat or not?