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Buses - Are We Jealous Sheffield?

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8 hours ago, Planner1 said:

No. Taking the revenue risk means that the operator takes the risk on whether or not the fare income covers their costs.

 

The operating contract they have for the supertram is a fixed cost that Stagecoach pay the PTE/MCA, so collecting fares or not only affects Stagecoach's income.

 

National government have no role n the operating contract for supertram. 

Thanks for that.

So it would then appear that the contract that they have is lucrative enough to render fare evasion not worth trying to prevent.

.... and as such we tax payers are carrying the cost.

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14 hours ago, cgksheff said:

Thanks for that.

So it would then appear that the contract that they have is lucrative enough to render fare evasion not worth trying to prevent.

.... and as such we tax payers are carrying the cost.

I think you are jumping to unsustainable conclusions.

 

Stagecoach tendered and paid an amount of money to the PTE to be the operator.

 

Stagecoach keep the fare income and they carry the cost if they don’t protect their revenue. Doesn’t cost the taxpayer anything.

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16 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

I think you are jumping to unsustainable conclusions.

 

Stagecoach tendered and paid an amount of money to the PTE to be the operator.

 

Stagecoach keep the fare income and they carry the cost if they don’t protect their revenue. Doesn’t cost the taxpayer anything.

As you keep saying.

I will repeat ... It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that Stagecoach got such a good deal that they consider revenue protection not worth pursuing with vigour.

i.e. We, the taxpayers, got less from them than we could have.

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29 minutes ago, cgksheff said:

As you keep saying.

I will repeat ... It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that Stagecoach got such a good deal that they consider revenue protection not worth pursuing with vigour.

i.e. We, the taxpayers, got less from them than we could have.

Well, people on here who appear to know more about it than I do reckon Stagecoach are losing money on the Supertram operating contract and don't want to continue with it. So I rather doubt that they consider that they got a great deal.

 

If you read post #103, it appears that the available fines for fare evasion aren't a deterrent.

 

Not collecting fares isn't exclusive to Stagecoach on the tram, I've seen it plenty of times on trains. I'd suspect it's more to do with individuals who aren't particularly good at their job rather than any lack of corporate will to collect the money.

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9 hours ago, LovePotion said:

I agree and that's because the Penalties are rarely enforced . With the current system, they can only really sting people once they get off the tram. And they can't have officers at every tram stop. If they did buy before you board, they could have officers issuing penalties and doing interviews under caution ONBOARD instead of just selling the chancers a ticket. 

As no Criminal charges can be brought against a tram passenger for simple fare dodging there is no need to interview under caution. There are no 'Officers' who could do this and no laws that allow detention for interview.

Again on the railway the availability of Criminal law means that RPIs (with  BTP support usually) can detain people for interview if they are suspected of fare evasion. They then interview under caution and depending on their legal teams the matter is dealt with under Criminal or Civil Law, a warning or dismissed. 

 

Hoping that our trams or buses could have the same criminal laws as the railway is not going to happen as it would require Government legislation. This Government wants to de-criminalize most of the railway fare dodging laws.

Fraud could be investigated by the civil police- but that requires a far higher level of proof.

 

A regular "tickets and passes" check by pairs of employees( can't use private security firms) will deter a large percentage of the opportunistic non-payers -and yes it would make the ordinary passenger happier, but I doubt if it would be cost effective. A solution would be that fare checking and evasion control would be part of the next contract with the operator-from 2024.

 

 

 

 

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On 01/04/2022 at 23:56, LovePotion said:

I agree and that's because the Penalties are rarely enforced . With the current system, they can only really sting people once they get off the tram. And they can't have officers at every tram stop. If they did buy before you board, they could have officers issuing penalties and doing interviews under caution ONBOARD instead of just selling the chancers a ticket. 

Trams used to be buy before boarding and there were machines at tram-stops.  

I assume through maintainence costs/theft/vandalism they became too costly.  (EDIT, here's an image)
 

npKL1Fg.jpg

There have been MANY occasions where I've travelled some distance by tram and not seen a conductor collecting fares, due to how busy it was (pre-covid). Although I have the privilege of free travel (granted by Stagecoach) so no loss of income from my journeys. 

Edited by Resident

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