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Buses - Are We Jealous Sheffield?

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1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

Exactly right. 

They were abandoned because:

(a) people said they didn't understand the system, which involved buying a ticket from one machine (or off site vendors) and "validating" it in another machine.

(b) The machines were getting vandalised and even stolen to get at the cash inside. Pay and display parking machines have the same problem, which is one reason why operators and Councils want us to use electronic payments.

Doesn't seem to be a problem for Manchester/Nottingham trams - but there again, all you have to do there is buy the ticket and away you go.

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5 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Doesn't seem to be a problem for Manchester/Nottingham trams - but there again, all you have to do there is buy the ticket and away you go.

I've seen the same system used elsewhere. Some folk used to use it as an excuse when dodging the fare. Buy one ticket, don't validate it and feign ignorance in the unlikely event of getting pulled by the revenue protection staff (highly unlikely as, if I recall correctly, they only had a handful of them in the early days).

 

There was no cctv on the tram stops in the early days, so the machines on the less busy stops began to be regularly vandalised / robbed. 

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3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

I've seen the same system used elsewhere. Some folk used to use it as an excuse when dodging the fare. Buy one ticket, don't validate it and feign ignorance in the unlikely event of getting pulled by the revenue protection staff (highly unlikely as, if I recall correctly, they only had a handful of them in the early days).

 

There was no cctv on the tram stops in the early days, so the machines on the less busy stops began to be regularly vandalised / robbed. 

Manchester/Nottingham have regular 'Revenue Protection' roving teams - and I think, but can't confirm because I've never fallen foul of the system - they issue penalty fares at £10/20 if you get caught. Will check on the Blackpool system next week-end and others later in the year when I go on my travels.

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4 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Manchester/Nottingham have regular 'Revenue Protection' roving teams - and I think, but can't confirm because I've never fallen foul of the system - they issue penalty fares at £10/20 if you get caught. Will check on the Blackpool system next week-end and others later in the year when I go on my travels.

I used to work in Manchester and saw their revenue protection in action many times. They work with the Police and are quite effective.

 

The penalty fare in Manchester is in fact  £100, reduced to £50 if you pay within 14 days. See this page.

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1 minute ago, Planner1 said:

I used to work in Manchester and saw their revenue protection in action many times. They work with the Police and are quite effective.

 

The penalty fare in Manchester is in fact  £100, reduced to £50 if you pay within 14 days. See this page.

As I said - never fallen foul of the revenue protection, as it is always miles cheaper to buy the ticket, but I'm not surprised the penalty is so high - it is an effective deterrent to trying to buck the system.

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28 minutes ago, LovePotion said:

They wouldn't even need to remove it straight away. They can take the tracks out and remove the stops when they do routine resurfacing work. They could appeal to businesses to sell off all of the plots of land like Castle Sauare, it could become student accomodation. They save money instantly by having no maintenance costs.

You really don't have any  comprehension about these things work, do you?

 

The cost of removing the rails is a substantial additional cost to standard highway maintenance arrangements. The council have a 25 year highway maintenance contract in place with Amey, who would want a lot of extra money. Who would pay it and from what funding?

 

What about the points, signalling, cabling, overhead catenary etc etc etc? Someone has to pay for it to be removed or made safe.

 

All what plots of land?

 

Most of the street infrastructure is on public highway, owned by the council. Why would you think they would want to sell off the public highway?

 

The only land which the PTE  own is the depot and park and ride sites, which might be sold of but would fetch nowhere near enough to cover the cost of decommissioning. 

 

Also how would it look for this city when we became the only city in the UK (maybe even in Europe, or the world)  to scrap a modern tram system? Most places are looking to get a tram or extend the ones they have, for reasons which are blindingly obvious to it seems, everyone but you.

Edited by Planner1

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With regards to the trams, maybe some questions should be asked why over the last 12 months, there has been 4? Instances of the overhead wires falling down?  More recently this week at Valley Centretainment.
 

Shows poor maintenance. Also, has any part of the overhead wires been replaced as part of the rail replacement schemes? 

Edited by Michael_N

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1 hour ago, LovePotion said:

Short term pain, long term gain.

If you like sadomasochism that may be so. There are many commuters who have no gain whatsoever from others who cant think at all yet claim they know it all.

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1 hour ago, Michael_N said:

With regards to the trams, maybe some questions should be asked why over the last 12 months, there has been 4? Instances of the overhead wires falling down?  More recently this week at Valley Centretainment.
 

Shows poor maintenance. Also, has any part of the overhead wires been replaced as part of the rail replacement schemes? 

It's pretty obvious that infrastructure renewal hasn't been done. That's why the MCA asked the government for £439m to fund the necessary renewals.

 

They got some of it in the CRSTS award, but I can't see exactly how much was for the tram.

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2 hours ago, LovePotion said:

Short term pain, long term gain.

You're just illustrating even more clearly that you don't have a clue. Still no thoughts on where the money would come from?

 

If you believe that removing 18 miles of track infrastructure is a short term operation, you really need to think again. 

 

What exactly is the gain? The 12 million trips that the tram carries would have to find another way to travel. That would mean more crowding on buses, more traffic congestion.

Edited by Planner1

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3 minutes ago, Planner1 said:

You're just illustrating even more clearly that you don't have a clue. Still no thoughts on where the money would come from?

 

If you believe that removing 18 miles of track infrastructure is a short term operation, you really need to think again. 

 

Wat exactly is the gain? The 12 million trips that the tram carries would have to find another way to travel. That would mean more crowding on buses, more traffic congestion.

It is pretty clear lovepotion believes in miracles and likes a fantasy of using daily pain and suffering to reach some heaven with angels playing and singing hallelujah in some future sheffield. Do not worry about it.

Religion is dead, now the believers are coming to politics.

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Guest busdriver1
6 hours ago, Michael_N said:

With regards to the trams, maybe some questions should be asked why over the last 12 months, there has been 4? Instances of the overhead wires falling down?  More recently this week at Valley Centretainment.
 

Shows poor maintenance. Also, has any part of the overhead wires been replaced as part of the rail replacement schemes? 

This used to be the case on the Tyne & wear Metro system where any incidents of overhead lines coming down were blamed on vandalism but in actual fact they were down to bad maintenance and they got found out and stopped. 

As an aside, the TW Metro have machines where you buy tickets and regular enforcement officers checking tickets and issuing heavy fines. I dont think any machines have been vandalised, or have they just worn that excuse out? 

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