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Certify A Copy Of Passport As A 'True Copy Of The Original'


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47 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Who determined that all people not belonging to one of those professions on the list, are inherently untrustworthy!?

Historically belonging to a profession was a requirement and meant that certain standards were expected to be met and if they were not you would be held to account or dismissed from the profession and therefore your job.

Historically your profession would have meant you were known in the community and had a reputation to keep.

Historically it would have meant the ability to read and understand the document to be signed.

Historically it would have meant a business address or contactable home address.

The 'list' has expanded over time.

 

None of this has anything to do with the honesty of the person who signs but it has to do with consequences and reparation that could be made if a false declaration is made. Many organizations will contact the countersigners randomly or regularly and establish the authenticity and truthfulness of that person- many of these contacts are through a 'business' address. Many will know that if they reference or sign for somebody dishonestly then their previous and future references and counter signatures would be worthless.

 

A 'professional' signature is not a reflection of the honesty and character of a person and in probably outdated. 

A social media/credit score search is now the most effective way of finding out about a person.

 

 

 

Edited by Annie Bynnol
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Thank you Annie.

 

It does seem a bit of a blunt instrument, which takes no account of outliers.

 

For example, professional people of poor character (or intelligence, capability, etc), or, non-professional people of good character, intelligent, capable, etc.

 

Anyhow, if its more to do with “consequences and reparation that could be made if a false declaration is made”, what kind of consequences are we talking about? Just curious, do you have any examples that come to mind?

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3 hours ago, Waldo said:

Thank you Annie.

 

It does seem a bit of a blunt instrument, which takes no account of outliers.

 

For example, professional people of poor character (or intelligence, capability, etc), or, non-professional people of good character, intelligent, capable, etc.

 

Anyhow, if its more to do with “consequences and reparation that could be made if a false declaration is made”, what kind of consequences are we talking about? Just curious, do you have any examples that come to mind?

It is a very blunt instrument and is open to abuse. It is just one way of checking the authenticity of a person.

Young people, those with irregular work records or incomplete education in particular and who may be struggling to get references should use people in their community who have found them to be honest, reliable and trustworthy. I would hope that good employers and good organizations etc. would know that and not use it as an absolute breaker.

People should also know that searches are automatically made on social media and software will search for keywords and usage.

 

On one level there are legal and economic consequences. A false declaration could be part of a criminal fraud, could lead to being sued, misrepresentation, removed from a profession, association, club, etc. A complaint could be made and recorded by your professional body and/or employer. It could also mean that a business reputation is harmed.

On another there is a moral responsibility to yourself and others. It also means that you may be unable to help deserving people in the future as your word and worth are tarnished.

 

That is why people who do sign these things have to take it seriously. I have/will turn down requests for signatures, counter signatures and references on occasion and for different reasons. 

3 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

I'm doubtful that the signatory of each photo is checked. I reckon anyone could sign and no-one would be the wiser.

If you do this you run the risk of delaying or even having you passport, visas and travel insurance cancelled.

If you do this on an American visa application or ESTA you will far more likely be caught, you will have committed a US criminal offence and you will be barred from entry to or changing planes in the US permanently or for a very long time. Some airlines flying to countries with visa requirement now use American lists. If you are a parent or organiser you will cause real problems for all the children and adults who have relied on you. Is it worth it?

 

 

 

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  • 2 years later...
On 19/02/2022 at 08:31, Annie Bynnol said:

Historically belonging to a profession was a requirement and meant that certain standards were expected to be met and if they were not you would be held to account or dismissed from the profession and therefore your job.

Historically your profession would have meant you were known in the community and had a reputation to keep.

Historically it would have meant the ability to read and understand the document to be signed.

Historically it would have meant a business address or contactable home address.

The 'list' has expanded over time.

 

None of this has anything to do with the honesty of the person who signs but it has to do with consequences and reparation that could be made if a false declaration is made. Many organizations will contact the countersigners randomly or regularly and establish the authenticity and truthfulness of that person- many of these contacts are through a 'business' address. Many will know that if they reference or sign for somebody dishonestly then their previous and future references and counter signatures would be worthless.

 

A 'professional' signature is not a reflection of the honesty and character of a person and in probably outdated. 

A social media/credit score search is now the most effective way of finding out about a person.

 

 

 

A social media search?!?  Good heavens, is that really considered to be a professional way of finding out about a person?  Persons of nefarious inclination often use fake accounts and profiles.  Added to that, many people choose to keep their online presence private to avoid being a victim of various scams and crimes.  Or simply to maintain their privacy.  
I agree that the ‘professional signature’ is not foolproof but compared to the minefield of using social media it is like comparing a slightly leaking bucket to a colander as a water carrying implement!!

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