Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[Hotmale 1954 201]

On 24/02/2022 at 13:47, melthebell said:

Oh give over with yer propaganda

👍

[Annie Bynnol 612]

17 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The World comprises many ideologies. philosophies and religions. Christian, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh and Jewish. And secularists Communists, Atheists, Agnostics.

 

They all believe their particular way to live, and their view of the World, is the correct one. They have their bibles, korans, torahs, and manifestos.

 

At any given time, they are at war with each other. They describe their enemies, as  Godless, Infidels, heretics, blasphemers, unenlightened, materialists and cults.

 

Like many other animals we share the planet with, "humans are social animals, and not very well equipped to live a life of solitude. We bond socially with like-minded people forming groups. Even if we have a falling out with another member, the powerful, instinctive desire to belong to the tribe means we're unlikely to leave or join another group" - (Medium)

 

At the extremes you have lockstep lemmings, ants and bees on the one hand and solo bears, rhinos, leopards on the other. They all survive, one way or the other.

 

If we are to understand amd deal with the world, as it is, we cannot ignore the fact that vast majority disagree with our own particular tribal viewpoint, especially if it is always expressed as "morally superior".

 

Understanding each viewpoint and examining the motivations of others, even our enemies, is not tantamount to supporting them. It is actually a way to formulate your defense against them. Calling them names is unhelpful, and counter productive.

 

An Einstein 'thought experiment'.

 

If Scotland, Wales, and Ireland were to seek independence from Her Majesty's United Kingdom, a la Ukraine, what would be your reaction?

 

And, if they sought the military support of say, Russia, China, Cuba, or North Korea to ensure their independence? Russian and Chinese ships unloading missiles in Glasgow, Dublin and Cardiff?

 

Just food for thought!

 

 

 

 

Einstein 'thought experiment'  do not apply to politics.

 

Ireland is already an independent country. 

In Scotland, Wales millions want independence/devolution for their countries, but they are a minority.

Referenda have already taken place in Wales and Scotland and may well take place again on independence/devolution.

In England there are only opinion polls.

Northern Ireland has a complex, part voluntary part legal agreement involving the Irish and UK Governments and the political parties in Northern Ireland. 

Ireland and the UK have cooperate on many things including arresting Americans regarded as terrorists by both countries.

 

Ukraine is not seeking independence from Russia- it has been an independent country since 1991.

Ukraine is trying to retain its independence.

 

 

 

 

[trastrick 866]

5 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Einstein 'thought experiment'  do not apply to politics.

 

Ireland is already an independent country. 

In Scotland, Wales millions want independence/devolution for their countries, but they are a minority.

Referenda have already taken place in Wales and Scotland and may well take place again on independence/devolution.

In England there are only opinion polls.

Northern Ireland has a complex, part voluntary part legal agreement involving the Irish and UK Governments and the political parties in Northern Ireland. 

Ireland and the UK have cooperate on many things including arresting Americans regarded as terrorists by both countries.

 

Ukraine is not seeking independence from Russia- it has been an independent country since 1991.

Ukraine is trying to retain its independence.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the response.

 

How about the $64,000 question?

 

(The second part of the question?)

[Hotmale 1954 201]

On 24/02/2022 at 17:47, altus said:

I think Bricky's getting his news from rt.com.

Err, no. He was getting his news from American Republican  sources.

You can tell it easily.

Biden. MSM. etc, etc, etc.

All Covid deniers, Putin sympathisers, and BLM etc, all read the same shiite from the same source.

A wrong one.

[trastrick 866]

45 minutes ago, Hotmale 1954 said:

Why the Hell do you bring Biden in to every single problem?

Do you think for one minute that anyone in Ukraine or Russia gives a flying flamingo about America, Trump, or Biden?

Republicans in the US care only about the US. ........... America first. MAGA.

If you must comment about Ukraine v Russia, please contain it to Russia v Ukraine.

It has nob all to do with America's President.

Any right thinking Leader should do all they can to help ANY oppressed country

The World doesn't need Republican back stabbing at this time.

We need unity against Putin, so get off Biden and his supporters {most of America's} backs.

Support Ukraine by any means possible.

Slava Ukraine.

Have you not noticed?

No other nation has sent in troops or offensive weaponry to Ukraine.

Sleepy Joe's fault I suppose? 

 

Well, it (the reference to Biden) has something to do with him being the Leader of the Free world, an all that!  

 

He also happens to run the U.S., the only country that has the power to confront the bully with force.

 

I'm actually with YOU on the 'Support Ukraine by ANY MEANS', though!

 

Start by cutting off Putin's sales of Fossil Fuels to to Europe, and sanctioning those countries that refuse. They made a Deal with the Devil! Greta would be shocked, shocked, I say! 

 

It's they who are funding Putin's invasion.

 

In effect, the West is arming both sides. And as usual it's the poor civilians that are paying the price.

 

Slava Ukraine!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by trastrick

[Hotmale 1954 201]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

My opinions are my own.

 

I don't get my opinions from the Left or Right MSM

 

I respond to world news, as it happens, not after I've read the conventional wisdom, spin, and latest talking points, of one side or the other.

 

I believe I quote far more from NYT, Wash. Post, CNN, Guardian, BBC than I do from Fox. 

 

Your last line is nonsensical. 

 

 

 

Fox News and The Hill.

Your early posts on this thread were          ........... there won't be a war.

Anti Biden. Anti Hunter Biden.

 The more contentious crap you posted was from  Fox and The Hill.

Nothing to do with the war, but all to demean Democrats, who haven't invaded Ukraine.

[harvey19 541]

The truth of the matters that no one except those in power know the reasons why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why.

None of us know positive details of what is happening and how many casualties there are on either side.

 

 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

...And, if they sought the military support of say, Russia, China, Cuba, or North Korea to ensure their independence? Russian and Chinese ships unloading missiles in Glasgow, Dublin and Cardiff?

 

Who is 'they'?

 

Regarding Dublin, the situation between the Governments of theses independent countries is legally much the same now as it was when Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland were given home rule in that are very agreements exist, fewer are actually written down. 'Understandings' have evolved. Historically no Anglo-Irish legislation was avoided or passed in Dublin or Westminster as it would upset somebody somewhere. There are still in existence some very strange 'understandings' which are too difficult unpick such as a walk on ticket that can still be obtained at Sheffield station for Dublin or Belfast that is cheaper than the fare to London, Edinburgh or Cardiff.

 

Regarding missiles, I am not sure that a tiny country with a tiny population and that has never been independent like -Wales, can be compared with the second largest and independent country in Europe by area and a population of 40 million. Neither could North Korean missiles warding off English tanks, naval ships and aircraft from crossing the border into Wales be ever seen as a realistic prospect.

[trastrick 866]

23 minutes ago, Hotmale 1954 said:

Fox News and The Hill.

Your early posts on this thread were          ........... there won't be a war.

Anti Biden. Anti Hunter Biden.

 The more contentious crap you posted was from  Fox and The Hill.

Nothing to do with the war, but all to demean Democrats, who haven't invaded Ukraine.

After Europe and the U.S. gave up Crimea, and the U.S. and Europe told the world they had no intention of joining the Ukrainians, in their fight over Russian "minor incursions", my solution was for Zelensky to face reality and let those self declared, "Independent Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk" join the Russian geopolitical sphere.

 

I believed then and I believe now that Zelenski should have come to a negotiated settlement with Russia, by force, if necessary, and I still do, to end the slaughter. I believe this will happen eventually if and when cooler heads prevail.

 

But who listens to SF posters?

 

Meanwhile the slaughter and destruction continue, while the U.S., the EU, Germany, Hungary and the others get their act together regarding the financing Putin's war, by bying Putin's Fossil Fuel.  This war could continue for "years", is the U.S. Official line.

 

I hear the EU have tabled a meeting for June, to "discuss it".

 

Meanwhile also, the U.S. is coming very close to a wider war, by providing the Ukraine with GPS targeting intelligence, which has resulted in the sinking of one, maybe two Russian warships.

 

A dangerous escalation, if ever there was one.

[trastrick 866]

37 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Who is 'they'?

 

Regarding Dublin, the situation between the Governments of theses independent countries is legally much the same now as it was when Southern Ireland and Northern Ireland were given home rule in that are very agreements exist, fewer are actually written down. 'Understandings' have evolved. Historically no Anglo-Irish legislation was avoided or passed in Dublin or Westminster as it would upset somebody somewhere. There are still in existence some very strange 'understandings' which are too difficult unpick such as a walk on ticket that can still be obtained at Sheffield station for Dublin or Belfast that is cheaper than the fare to London, Edinburgh or Cardiff.

 

Regarding missiles, I am not sure that a tiny country with a tiny population and that has never been independent like -Wales, can be compared with the second largest and independent country in Europe by area and a population of 40 million. Neither could North Korean missiles warding off English tanks, naval ships and aircraft from crossing the border into Wales be ever seen as a realistic prospect.

It's the principle of true democratic "independence" for an elected government to align itself with a foreign military power that I am talking about.

 

Not the likelyhood, or the rationality of the situation.

 

Wars are started by irrational people. The kind who bomb British pubs and shopping centers and attempt the assassination of British Prime Ministers Major, and Thatcher.

 

Wanna try again? 

 

Edited May 8, 2022 by trastrick

[Annie Bynnol 612]

43 minutes ago, trastrick said:

It's the principle of true democratic "independence" for an elected government to align itself with a foreign military power that I am talking about.

 

Not the likelyhood, or the rationality of the situation.

 

Wars are started by irrational people. The kind who bomb British pubs and shopping centers and attempt the assassination of British Prime Ministers Major, and Thatcher.

 

Wanna try again? 

 

 

Sentence One-there is no "principle".

Sentence Two -is not a sentence.

Sentence Three- not always true and I think you are referring to a civil war not an invasion of an independent country.

Sentence Four- no. 

 

Whatever point you are trying to make in this post is lost on me, but as you are still promoting appeasement I can only point out that appeasement has not stopped the increasing number of "special" military exploits Putin has instigated.

 

[trastrick 866]

17 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

Sentence One-there is no "principle".

Sentence Two -is not a sentence.

Sentence Three- not always true and I think you are referring to a civil war not an invasion of an independent country.

Sentence Four- no. 

 

Whatever point you are trying to make in this post is lost on me, but as you are still promoting appeasement I can only point out that appeasement has not stopped the increasing number of "special" military exploits Putin has instigated.

 

I can see why it's lost on you.

 

There is indeed a principle.

 

It's what the poor Ukrainians are fighting for. And the what the West is is (half heartedly) supporting.

 

Namely, "the right of self determination of a democratic sovereign State".

 

If you can't see it, perhaps it's because you seem more interested in parsing sentences. A "forest and trees" thing.

 

As for your repeated charge that I am an "appeaser". That's a non starter.

 

The appeasement was by the West, when they allowed Putin to annex Ukrainian Crimea.

 

Again when the U.S. announced it would not  militarily oppose "minor incursions" into the  Donetsk and Luhansk areas of the Ukraine.

 

And, of course by NATO and the EU, who refuse to stop buying Putin's Oil and Gas, which is feeding Putin's military machine, thereby effectively financing Putin's war of attrition.