Ukraine: Invasion Imminent?

[trastrick 866]

21 hours ago, harvey19 said:

The truth of the matters that no one except those in power know the reasons why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why.

None of us know positive details of what is happening and how many casualties there are on either side.

 

 

The reasons for the war are actually clear.

 

Russia will not allow a bordering State to become part of a military alliance (NATO) with the West.

 

Any more than the US would allow, Cuba, Canada or Mexico to join a Russian military alliance. (Or, as I pointed ouit in another post, England's Scotland, Ireland or Wales)

 

Each superpower has determined it's own "strategic area of interest" and any hostile incursion, (like NATO expansion) into it's backyard will not be tolerated.

 

This was understood by previous administrions, and the World was kept at relative peace during the Cold War.

 

The latest Western leadership have tossed out this "understanding" and poor Ukraine is the victim of this strategic move by NATO. Zelensky has apllied for NATO membership, and the head of the EU has said "they would be welcomed", and meeting are scheduled to be held to discuss their apllication.

 

It's actually the West that refuses to achnowledge the root cause of the conflict.

 

One  example being the refusal of Europe to end their dependence on Russian Oil and Gas, which is actually financing Putin's War Machine.

 

This of course causes confusion, 

 

But you are not alone, in wondering "why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why"

 

The participants don't even know.

 

Witness this recent exchange when Biden sent his wife to the Ukraine to cheer them on.

 

AP News

 

"Her visit was to western Ukraine; Russia is concentrating its military power in eastern Ukraine, and she was not in harm’s way."

 

(It's not an all out war, it's a war of initimidation, which has cost Putin dearly for his strategic reluctance to carpet bomb and raze the country)

 

"At a bus station in the city that is now a 24-hour refugee processing center, Biden found herself in an extended conversation with a Ukrainian woman who said she struggles to explain the war to her three children because she cannot understand it herself.

 

“I cannot explain because I don’t know myself and I’m a teacher,” Victorie Kutocha, who had her arms around her 7-year-old daughter, Yulie, told Biden.

 

"At one point, Kutocha asked, “Why?” seeming to seek an explanation for Russia’s decision to invade Ukraine on Feb. 24.

 

"It’s so hard to understand,” the first lady replied."

 

So there you have it. If a Ukranian teacher doesn't understand the war, and the Fiirst Lady on a diplomatic mission, can't explain it to her. You can see why there's a lack of clarity about the whole fiasco.

 

It's simply a conflict between the Western Military Alliance, and Russia. A dangerous one that threatens the World order. A proxy war fought only by Ukraine.

 

The MSM "narrative" is that they are "winning", and teaching Putin a lesson in the bargain, 

 

The West will have to intervene militarily, or accept the Russian dominance. They have no other choice.

 

And the sooner they can bring themselves to face that reality, the sooner the death and destruction of Ukraine's unwinnable war against Russia will end!

 

China is watching closely, as they have designs on Taiwan, and after that, who knows?

 

As long as the West will not intervene, it's open season on those unfortunate people who happen to be in the "sphere of strategic interest" of  the totalitarians.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by trastrick

[Padders 2,866]

When we were at odds with Ireland, the IRA thought nothing of killing innocent civilians on British mainland...

Why can't Ukraine plant a few bombs in Moscow ?

[nightrider 13]

14 minutes ago, Padders said:

When we were at odds with Ireland, the IRA thought nothing of killing innocent civilians on British mainland...

Why can't Ukraine plant a few bombs in Moscow ?

this has happened. Many oil refineries and other infrastructure have been blown up in the last month. No one has claimed responsibility.

[RJRB 688]

13 minutes ago, Padders said:

When we were at odds with Ireland, the IRA thought nothing of killing innocent civilians on British mainland...

Why can't Ukraine plant a few bombs in Moscow ?

It’s more likely that Putin will arrange this and blame Ukraine.

He has previous 

[harvey19 541]

26 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The reasons for the war are actually clear.

 

Russia will not allow a bordering State to become part of a military alliance (NATO) with the West.

 

Any more than the US would allow, Cuba, Canada or Mexico to join a Russian military alliance. (Or, as I pointed ouit in another post, England's Scotland, Ireland or Wales)

 

Each superpower has determined it's own "strategic area of interest" and any hostile incursion, (like NATO expansion) into it's backyard will not be tolerated.

 

This was understood by previous administrions, and the World was kept at relative peace during the Cold War.

 

The latest Western leadership have tossed out this "understanding" and poor Ukraine is the victim of this strategic move by NATO. Zelensky has apllied for NATO membership, and the head of the EU has said "they would be welcomed", and meeting are scheduled to be held to discuss their apllication.

 

It's actually the West that refuses to achnowledge the root cause of the conflict.

 

One  example being the refusal of Europe to end their dependence on Russian Oil and Gas, which is actually financing Putin's War Machine.

 

This of course causes confusion, 

 

But you are not alone, in wondering "why this war started or who is involved in one way or another and why"

 

The participants don't even know.

 

Witness this recent exchange when Biden sent his wife to the Ukraine to cheer them on.

 

AP News

 

"Her visit was to western Ukraine; Russia is concentrating its military power in eastern Ukraine, and she was not in harm’s way."

 

(It's not an all out war, it's a war of initimidation, which has cost Putin dearly for his strategic reluctance to carpet bomb and raze the country)

 

"At a bus station in the city that is now a 24-hour refugee processing center, Biden found herself in an extended conversation with a Ukrainian woman who said she struggles to explain the war to her three children because she cannot understand it herself.

 

“I cannot explain because I don’t know myself and I’m a teacher,” Victorie Kutocha, who had her arms around her 7-year-old daughter, Yulie, told Biden.

 

"At one point, Kutocha asked, “Why?” seeming to seek an explanation for Russia’s decision to invade Ukraine on Feb. 24.

 

"It’s so hard to understand,” the first lady replied."

 

So there you have it. If a Ukranian teacher doesn't understand the war, and the Fiirst Lady on a diplomatic mission, can't explain it to her. You can see why there's a lack of clarity about the whole fiasco.

 

It's simply a conflict between the Western Military Alliance, and Russia. A dangerous one that threatens the World order. A proxy war fought only by Ukraine.

 

The MSM "narrative" is that they are "winning", and teaching Putin a lesson in the bargain, 

 

The West will have to intervene militarily, or accept the Russian dominance. They have no other choice.

 

And the sooner they can bring themselves to face that reality, the sooner the death and destruction of Ukraine's unwinnable war against Russia will end!

 

China is watching closely, as they have designs on Taiwan, and after that, who knows?

 

As long as the West will not intervene, it's open season on those unfortunate people who happen to be in the "sphere of strategic interest" of  the totalitarians.

 

 

I understand Russia being worried about the expansion of NATO but why did actual hostilities begin and why did talks fail ?

[altus 540]

25 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The reasons for the war are actually clear.

 

Russia will not allow a bordering State to become part of a military alliance (NATO) with the West.

He already has five NATO members bordering his country.

 

The real reason for the war is he doesn't want his citizens seeing a neighbouring country doing well out of breaking away from Putin's kleptocracy by becoming a westward leaning liberal democracy. Putin's kleptocracy can't compete with that any more than the Soviet Union could compete with living standards in the west. Add to that his disappointment at being in charge of a Russia fading in influence, that his governance of the country has accelerated, which has prompted his dreams of returning Russia to the glory days of its pre-Soviet empire. It's far easier to blame external factors than accept his own part in creating his country's problems.

[whiteowl 54]

30 minutes ago, trastrick said:

The reasons for the war are actually clear.

 

Russia will not allow a bordering State to become part of a military alliance (NATO) with the West.

 

Any more than the US would allow, Cuba, Canada or Mexico to join a Russian military alliance. (Or, as I pointed ouit in another post, England's Scotland, Ireland or Wales)

 

Each superpower has determined it's own "strategic area of interest" and any hostile incursion, (like NATO expansion) into it's backyard will not be tolerated.

 

This was understood by previous administrions, and the World was kept at relative peace during the Cold War.

 

The latest Western leadership have tossed out this "understanding" and poor Ukraine is the victim of this strategic move by NATO. Zelensky has apllied for NATO membership, and the head of the EU has said "they would be welcomed", and meeting are scheduled to be held to discuss their apllication.

 

It's actually the West that refuses to achnowledge the root cause of the conflict.

 

<snip>

 

 

Latvia has over 100 miles of border with Russia and joined NATO in 2004.

 

You also understand that the head of the EU has nothing to do with NATO membership?

 

[Jim117 72]

8 minutes ago, altus said:

He already has five NATO members bordering his country.

 

The real reason for the war is he doesn't want his citizens seeing a neighbouring country doing well out of breaking away from Putin's kleptocracy by becoming a westward leaning liberal democracy. Putin's kleptocracy can't compete with that any more than the Soviet Union could compete with living standards in the west. Add to that his disappointment at being in charge of a Russia fading in influence, that his governance of the country has accelerated, which has prompted his dreams of returning Russia to the glory days of its pre-Soviet empire. It's far easier to blame external factors than accept his own part in creating his country's problems.

Yeah this exactly.

[trastrick 866]

1 hour ago, altus said:

He already has five NATO members bordering his country.

 

The real reason for the war is he doesn't want his citizens seeing a neighbouring country doing well out of breaking away from Putin's kleptocracy by becoming a westward leaning liberal democracy. Putin's kleptocracy can't compete with that any more than the Soviet Union could compete with living standards in the west. Add to that his disappointment at being in charge of a Russia fading in influence, that his governance of the country has accelerated, which has prompted his dreams of returning Russia to the glory days of its pre-Soviet empire. It's far easier to blame external factors than accept his own part in creating his country's problems.

Totalitarians have their reasons, and that's always a part of it. And Totalitarians always blame external factors to keep their people in line.

 

And that's why I keep saying that the only choices are all out war against them, or co-existence.

 

Co-existance encourages trade relations, cultural exchanges and the like.

 

In Canada we had then Soviet Agricultural Minister Gorbachev touring Canadian Farms in the 70's/80s, he asked where the peasant's dormitories were and was gobsmacked when the farmer pointed to his modern machinery in the sheds.

 

I put up Chinese students and took them on tours of affluent Chinese  residential areas where all the young ones were westernized with big houses, cars, well groomed high school kidss, with cell phones, and all the shopping malls in the area had Chinese signs. (Northeast TO, Pacific Mall area for those who have been there)

 

One, who was studying neurosurgery at a Toronto hospital asked me point blank if I worked for the government. He though I was his "handler", Lol

 

We became friends, and because he had a wife and child, back in China, (virtually being held hostage) we helped him setlle in Toronto, and he was able to get the wife and child over.  That was a big celebration day.

 

You are right. Once they've seen Paree, they don't want to go back.

 

So cut out the regional wars. Stay militarily strong so that you have a strong deterrent, and set an example.

 

They like their Western hotels, football teams and yatchts.

 

Just don't the break the international rules, that kept the World safe during the Cold War, unles you are prepared to pay the ultimate price.

 

Calling them all the names under the sun, is couterproductive.

 

We all know what they are!

Edited May 9, 2022 by trastrick

[Padders 2,866]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

The reasons for the war are actually clear.

 

 

 

 

Trastrick, I always read your posts, I find them interesting, and you make some very valid points...

Some I agree with, most I don't.

My own interpretation is this war should never have happened..

NATO have no intention of invading Russia , as Putin claims...

However I do understand that Putin has a grievance towards the West..

This should have been sorted out diplomatically between the powers, Putin should have gone on the World stage and demanded negotiations with NATO...He could have issued threats to bring NATO to the table.

Something could and would have been sorted..

Yes, it's complicated, but to do what Mr. Putin has done is horrific, immoral, and inhuman.

Putin and Russia must pay the price, whatever it takes.........

[trastrick 866]

5 minutes ago, Padders said:

Trastrick, I always read your posts, I find them interesting, and you make some very valid points...

Some I agree with, most I don't.

My own interpretation is this war should never have happened..

NATO have no intention of invading Russia , as Putin claims...

However I do understand that Putin has a grievance towards the West..

This should have been sorted out diplomatically between the powers, Putin should have gone on the World stage and demanded negotiations with NATO...He could have issued threats to bring NATO to the table.

Something could and would have been sorted..

Yes, it's complicated, but to do what Mr. Putin has done is horrific, immoral, and inhuman.

Putin and Russia must pay the price, whatever it takes.........

I agree with that.

 

The problem is the complacent West has no appetite has no longer any appetite to go to war.

 

Maybe if their internet was down for a week,

 

Biden has made that perfectly clear. And Totalitarians Putin and Xi listened.

 

So it's the old. "Let george do it, I can't be arsed. What's on't telly?"

 

So just who is going to make Putin pay the price you demand?

[Padders 2,866]

2 minutes ago, trastrick said:

 

 

So just who is going to make Putin pay the price you demand?

1000s upon 1000s of innocent lives.