kidley   48 #1105 Posted March 1, 2022 32 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said:  Don't even have to look at that one. If Poland supplied fighter jets to shoot down Russian planes or attack troops it would mean NATO had started a war, Russia would probably attack Poland and they'd be justified in doing so.  Edit: I watched the first half it said Ukrainian pilots were in Poland and are flying the jest to Ukraine, that means Poland has joined the war. I wonder if England and Germany etc have joined the war by sending/taking weapons to the Ukraine so they can blow russian tanks up etc? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #1106 Posted March 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, janie48 said: How anyone can watch the tragic suffering being inflicted on those people in Ukraine on our news channels and defend Putin is beyond comprehension.  The Man is a war criminal and will be a victim of his own downfall in the end.  it currently seems like hes definitely miscalculated this "invasion", currently over 5700 dead, and a lot of armour and vehicles destroyed, tanks running out of fuel 3 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said: What about the 130 Russian children killed by Ukraine, and the other atrocities?  source please Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers   224 #1107 Posted March 1, 2022 Absolutely they are supplying the Government of Ukraine . I think about 8,000 plus anti tank weapons have either arrived or being sent. The Russians are going to pay a high high price  Going to be Putins folly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Waldo   96 #1108 Posted March 1, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, melthebell said: it currently seems like hes definitely miscalculated this "invasion", currently over 5700 dead, and a lot of armour and vehicles destroyed, tanks running out of fuel Seems that way, let's hope it is indeed the case.  Hopefully they'll go after the Putin's network and Oligarchs, anyone supporting and connected to him, even close family of those connected to him, confiscate all their assets. Once his pals realise they're being divested of their assets, perhaps they'll not be so keen to be aligned with and support him. Edited March 1, 2022 by Waldo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers   224 #1109 Posted March 1, 2022  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #1110 Posted March 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Waldo said: Seems that way, let's hope it is indeed the case.  Hopefully they'll go after the Putin's network and Oligarchs, anyone supporting and connected to him, confiscate all their assets. Once his pals realise they're being divested of their assets, perhaps they'll not be so keen to be aligned with and support him. I was watching some US servicemen doing a video on the subject, they even reckon that long convoy had stalled because there was so much destroyed on the road and civillians had placed stuff to slow it down Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
SheffieldBricky   0 #1111 Posted March 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, melthebell said: it currently seems like hes definitely miscalculated this "invasion", currently over 5700 dead, and a lot of armour and vehicles destroyed, tanks running out of fuel source please (1) Ben đ on Twitter: "6 minutes well worth listening to for a better overview of current events than any legacy media network will give you...pt. 1 https://t.co/l1VLgk0kTY" / Twitter 2 minutes ago, melthebell said: I was watching some US servicemen doing a video on the subject, they even reckon that long convoy had stalled because there was so much destroyed on the road and civillians had placed stuff to slow it down Here's an expert who says Ukraine have already lost, in the east anyway.  TJ on Twitter: "1/2 Retired US Army colonel Douglas Macgregor went on Fox News and told the truth about what led up to the Russia-Ukraine conflict and why this happened. This has been over a decade in the making, instigated by the West at every turn. https://t.co/VldQ2t8CHd" / Twitter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
butlers   224 #1112 Posted March 1, 2022 Hey, check out this Image - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMy-5M7X0AIC_Ei.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Thorpist   71 #1113 Posted March 2, 2022 The sad thing is that an awful lot of people will be die and be maimed for Putins ideology. The west really need to get the information to the Russian people as they are the only ones who can truly defeat Putin.  sanctions against all his cronies ( the oligarchs didnât get their wealth without his backing) may help them turn against him. We in the west must be prepared for a huge change in our living standards to help combat this genocidal attack on a country that voluntarily gave up its Nuclear arsenal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
cuttsie   1,063 #1114 Posted March 2, 2022 70% of the Russian population are behind Putin so no big upraising is  going to happen there . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
L00b   441 #1115 Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Waldo said: Absolutely donât accept anything without evaluating itâs credibility, by the same token, donât discount anything without evaluating its credibility.  Given whatâs at stake, youâd think it worthwhile to correctly examine the validity of Putinâs grievances with the west.  Not that Iâm suggesting any grievance would justify what heâs done. But I do believe, NATO is US led, and the US are certainly not whiter than white when it comes to meddling in other countriesâ affairs, neither are we for that matter. However, we certainly shouldnât be getting distracted by self recrimination right now. Youâve answered your point in your follow-on posts.  Putinâs grievances are immaterial, heâs a dictator who came onto the scene years after the USSR imploded and ex-USSR countries (including Russia itself) gained their independence, fully sovereign.  He never should have been accommodated by Western democracies, nor his assets caretakers like Abramovich, after his second term. But well, greed and path of least resistance for 2 decades, and here we are.  Russiaâs grievances, now thatâs another -and fair- question. How fearful is the common-or-garden Russian of the West and NATO? The aspirational lifestyle of Russian lower to higher middle classes, no different to that found in most european and American countries, replete with i-things, McDonalds, IKEA and more, suggests ânot in the leastâ.  How fearful should the common-or-garden Russian be of the West and NATO? When did the US or any other NATO member perform, or threaten to perform, or was caught preparing to perform, an act of war (or the like) against Russia? Or Ukraine? Or Belarus?  The US was certainly meddlesome, but US public opinion is exhausted by this foreign adventurism and its body bags. Obama started to curb that interference, Trump put a more abrupt end to it. Same story in the UK, and very many other countries.  But at least, in all those countries, there were -and still are, for now- democratic safeguards enforcing the separation of powers and keeping executive power to account (to a greater or lesser extent at any point in time, depending on the representation make-up, constitutional mechanismsâŠand their abuse). The reason Putin could go into Ukraine on a whim, is that there havenât been such safeguards in Russia for well over a decade. Rather, there are âsuicidesâ from repeatedly jumping out of 5th storey windows.  His main grievance is not âNATO is growing to my Westâ.  His main grievance is that, with the wealthiest country (in terms of resources) in his hands, after 22 years in power engaging in unbridled kleptocracy, Russia has a smaller economy than Italy and is an economic basket case (and thatâs before the recent sanctions) and, for all the State propaganda across mainstream media, the average Russian sees just fine on social media, music clips, movies, Netflix, etc, how the rest of Europe and the world is getting on, and beginning to wonder âwhy the **** arenât we like this?â  Given the proximity of Ukraine with western Russia, the depth and strength of socio-cultural ties between so many inhabitants of both countries, he cannot afford for Ukraine to start doing âbetterâ than St Petersburg or Moscow. Edited March 2, 2022 by L00b Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
crookesey   586 #1116 Posted March 2, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Thorpist said: The sad thing is that an awful lot of people will be die and be maimed for Putins ideology. The west really need to get the information to the Russian people as they are the only ones who can truly defeat Putin.  sanctions against all his cronies ( the oligarchs didnât get their wealth without his backing) may help them turn against him. We in the west must be prepared for a huge change in our living standards to help combat this genocidal attack on a country that voluntarily gave up its Nuclear arsenal. Heâs waited some time to flex his muscles on the big stage, I just wonder why. Perhaps he feels that he has something to prove, or heâs simply a genocidal lunatic, I canât make my mind up which is the worst. Edited March 2, 2022 by crookesey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...