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Another T Bone Rta At Meadowhead Junction!

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theres always chancers at junctions,add speeding traffic,result accidents

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On 20/01/2022 at 19:00, Jim Hardie said:

You’d have to be an idiot to mistake a green light in the form of an arrow indicating straight ahead for one that gives you right of way when turning right.

Have you actually seen this junction?? its not the ones going straight ahead that are at fault!! you have a give way surrounded by loads of traffic light posts with various lights in eyesight to those supposed to give way to oncoming, they can see a red in the corner of their eye on the left hand carriageway and immediately think he through traffic going the other is also on a red, hence they pull across and get T boned.

would make sense to have the give way light controlled and also the carriageway from lowedges to meadowhead roundabout light controlled also. problem solved.

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35 minutes ago, ab6262 said:

Have you actually seen this junction?? its not the ones going straight ahead that are at fault!! you have a give way surrounded by loads of traffic light posts with various lights in eyesight to those supposed to give way to oncoming, they can see a red in the corner of their eye on the left hand carriageway and immediately think he through traffic going the other is also on a red, hence they pull across and get T boned.

would make sense to have the give way light controlled and also the carriageway from lowedges to meadowhead roundabout light controlled also. problem solved.

I know the junction very well and I’ve turned right down Greenhill Avenue dozens of times. I gave my theory for the T bones in Post 7. Where did I fault the ones going straight ahead?

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55 minutes ago, Jim Hardie said:

I know the junction very well and I’ve turned right down Greenhill Avenue dozens of times. I gave my theory for the T bones in Post 7. Where did I fault the ones going straight ahead?

ah sorry i missed that one

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The last few comments are way off the mark. The problem with this junction is not speed. It is the confusion caused by having a right turn lane off Greenhill Main Road into Greenhill Avenue which is NOT traffic signal controlled at the very point where there is a signal controlled pedestrian crossing. What looks to be a rational situation is then made worse for unfamilar drivers by the double band of white dashes indicating Give Way to right turning traffic. But the really stupid bit is that the crossing is split into two segments. So when the westbound traffic is held, the right turners see a red light and think the traffic coming from Bradway will stop....but they still have a green light !  A green light that the right turners cannot see !   Bang! That's the problem. It can be made worse if they are still doing 40 but usually the congestion ahead has them slowing down before the junction. If anyone has been prosecuted for causing a collision whilst turning right in these circumstances then they surely have a cast iron defence !   The simple answer is either to make the junction fully signal controlled (which would probably screw up the Meadowhead roundabout traffic) or -easier - to make the crossing one unified crossing so that all lights change at the same time and then, as a bonus put in a green arrow to co-incide with the red stop light on  the westbound carriageway. 

I won't bother repeating my driving and road safety credentials, the City Council engineers know it all !  (

If you want to see another of their questionable T/L junctions go to Gleadless Road/Daresbury Road where for no discernable reason straight ahead city bound traffic has to wait whilst right turners heading to East Bank Road get a "Go". and where every night out-bound traffic is allowed through in dribs and drabs of only three or four cars whilst Daresbury Road exits get a full minute of margin after the sensors have detected nothing).

 

Edited by DavidFrance
sentence added

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2 hours ago, DavidFrance said:

But the really stupid bit is that the crossing is split into two segments. So when the westbound traffic is held, the right turners see a red light and think the traffic coming from Bradway will stop....but they still have a green light !  A green light that the right turners cannot see !   Bang! That's the problem.

I understand that the signal operation has been changed and both sides go red at the same time.

2 hours ago, DavidFrance said:

 The simple answer is either to make the junction fully signal controlled (which would probably screw up the Meadowhead roundabout traffic)

That is correct. The Council's engineers modelled the effects of signalising it and the queues from the right turn went back to the roundabout, which is undesirable. 

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2 hours ago, DavidFrance said:

 or -easier - to make the crossing one unified crossing so that all lights change at the same time and then, as a bonus put in a green arrow to co-incide with the red stop light on  the westbound carriageway. 

I understand all the lights do change at the same time now.

 

You can't just add a filter arrow onto a pedestrian crossing. It would have to be full junction signals to have one of those. 

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16 hours ago, DavidFrance said:

If you want to see another of their questionable T/L junctions go to Gleadless Road/Daresbury Road where for no discernable reason straight ahead city bound traffic has to wait whilst right turners heading to East Bank Road get a "Go". and where every night out-bound traffic is allowed through in dribs and drabs of only three or four cars whilst Daresbury Road exits get a full minute of margin after the sensors have detected nothing).

It was extremely dodgy before it was changed to work like that. If I recall correctly the ahead and right turn movements were signalled separately. Drivers saw the ahead signal and thought they could  turn right too, which brought them into conflict with opposing drivers, resulting in lots of near-misses. The current arrangement isn't ideal in terms of maximising the capacity of the junction, but at least its safer.

Edited by Planner1

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9 hours ago, Planner1 said:

I understand that the signal operation has been changed and both sides go red at the same time.

That is correct. The Council's engineers modelled the effects of signalising it and the queues from the right turn went back to the roundabout, which is undesirable. 

the queues go back to the roundabout anyway, just stagger the time to be shorter its  not hard is it!

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11 hours ago, Planner1 said:

Drivers saw the ahead signal and thought they could  turn right too, which brought them into conflict with opposing drivers, resulting in lots of near-misses. The current arrangement isn't ideal in terms of maximising the capacity of the junction, but at least its safer.

Thank you for that and your confirmation of my thoughts on Meadowhead, Planner 1. I'm sure you agree , though, that it shouldn't be left until someone is killed to get it changed at Meadowhead. 

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3 minutes ago, DavidFrance said:

Thank you for that and your confirmation of my thoughts on Meadowhead, Planner 1. I'm sure you agree , though, that it shouldn't be left until someone is killed to get it changed at Meadowhead. 

it needs set lights here and it could be easily done.

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