Sheffield City Centre - The Future

[Anna B 1,414]

John Lewis should become a new market building. Flea market, vintage market, art and craft market, food market, second hand book market, swap market, refurbished/ reclaimed market. Artisan market, You name it. Any or all of these in one building. Add cafe's and pop up bars. Get the students and young designers and entrepreneurs involved, and reduce /remove the rates/ ground rents for first year.

[ECCOnoob 1,043]

25 minutes ago, Anna B said:

John Lewis should become a new market building. Flea market, vintage market, art and craft market, food market, second hand book market, swap market, refurbished/ reclaimed market. Artisan market, You name it. Any or all of these in one building. Add cafe's and pop up bars. Get the students and young designers and entrepreneurs involved, and reduce /remove the rates/ ground rents for first year.

.... who pays for all that then?  The water still needs to flow, the lights still need to be powered, the heating still needs to be fuelled, insurance still needs to be covered, the building still needs to be maintained, the cleaner still needs to be paid... low rent or no rent = no money or huge shortfall.

 

I have nothing against independent traders, in fact many of them are doing quite well at the moment.   But if they want prime site in the middle of the city they have to make money to pay for it. If they don't, someone else has to pick up the slack and I certainly don't want it to be the taxpayers popping up some second-hand (hate that overused trend of the word "vintage") clothes stand that sells one dress every six months or some trendy bakery which people walk in, laugh at the price and walk back out again.

 

The idea sounds great, but they have to face the reality of paying their way. Otherwise the building might as well be sold for market value profit and turned into something that will actually make money.

 

We also need to think of the fine balance of oversaturation. We already have several outlets for such independent, artisanal traders who are already fighting with each other for competition. The grand Daddy of them all is the Forum which has been there decades but is now a shadow of its former self, particularly in terms of its shops part. It has younger and trendy operations snapping at it's heels. We have have similar thrift/ vintage clothing on West Street, down on King Street, Rockingham Street, Division Street, we have reclaimed furniture and antiques all over Abbeydale Road and in Kelham Island....

 

Even the vintage and independent sectors are now facing competition from online commerce such as eBay, Vinted, Etsy,

 

Unique sells but only if it is actually unique.

Edited February 21, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Anna B 1,414]

1 hour ago, ECCOnoob said:

.... who pays for all that then?  The water still needs to flow, the lights still need to be powered, the heating still needs to be fuelled, insurance still needs to be covered, the building still needs to be maintained, the cleaner still needs to be paid... low rent or no rent = no money or huge shortfall.

 

I have nothing against independent traders, in fact many of them are doing quite well at the moment.   But if they want prime site in the middle of the city they have to make money to pay for it. If they don't, someone else has to pick up the slack and I certainly don't want it to be the taxpayers popping up some second-hand (hate that overused trend of the word "vintage") clothes stand that sells one dress every six months or some trendy bakery which people walk in, laugh at the price and walk back out again.

 

The idea sounds great, but they have to face the reality of paying their way. Otherwise the building might as well be sold for market value profit and turned into something that will actually make money.

 

We also need to think of the fine balance of oversaturation. We already have several outlets for such independent, artisanal traders who are already fighting with each other for competition. The grand Daddy of them all is the Forum which has been there decades but is now a shadow of its former self, particularly in terms of its shops part. It has younger and trendy operations snapping at it's heels. We have have similar thrift/ vintage clothing on West Street, down on King Street, Rockingham Street, Division Street, we have reclaimed furniture and antiques all over Abbeydale Road and in Kelham Island....

 

Even the vintage and independent sectors are now facing competition from online commerce such as eBay, Vinted, Etsy,

 

Unique sells but only if it is actually unique.

I thought John Lewis owed the council a small fortune  for a broken contract? 

And the council are considering a considerable amount of money to 'wrap' the John Lewis building to stop it going derelict. Use the money for this instead. At least it would attract people into the city centre, and create employment.

 

Anyway whatever the council come up with it's going to cost money - everything does.

Should we just give up? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Anna B

[Bargepole23 337]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

I thought John Lewis owed the council a small fortune  for a broken contract? 

And the council are considering a considerable amount of money to 'wrap' the John Lewis building to stop it going derelict. Use the money for this instead. At least it would attract people into the city centre, and create employment.

 

Anyway whatever the council come up with it's going to cost money - everything does.

Should we just give up? 

JL have paid £5m to SCC. SCC budget for removing asbestos is £3.1m, leaving just shy of 2m for all other building services, structural and fit out works. Think they will need a bit more than the 100k they are spending on wrapping to make those sums add up.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Bargepole23

[Anna B 1,414]

On 21/02/2022 at 22:15, Bargepole23 said:

JL have paid £5m to SCC. SCC budget for removing asbestos is £3.1m, leaving just shy of 2m for all other building services, structural and fit out works. Think they will need a bit more than the 100k they are spending on wrapping to make those sums add up.

£3.1 million to remove asbestos from one building?  Who's doing the job? And why wasn't it done years ago when JL were still in the building and the public were using it? Asbestos has been illegal for years.

And why wasn't that amount added on to JL's liabilities?

[HeHasRisen 3,403]

You can't just get a YTS kid in on £4 an hour to carry asbestos out by hand, you know. It's a highly specialist, expensive procedure.

[ads36 217]

there's asbestos in lots of buildings - quite possibly only metres away from where you are now.

 

it's generally accepted that the best thing to do is leave it be.

 

if it's going to be removed, it needs to be surveyed, analysed, sealed off, dust suppression, dust extraction, monitoring, etc. etc. 

 

then we need to consider transport and disposal.

 

£££££££££££

 

39 minutes ago, Anna B said:

And why wasn't that amount added on to JL's liabilities?

John Lewis didn't put it there, it's been there for decades.

[Bargepole23 337]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

£3.1 million to remove asbestos from one building?  Who's doing the job? And why wasn't it done years ago when JL were still in the building and the public were using it? Asbestos has been illegal for years.

And why wasn't that amount added on to JL's liabilities?

How much do you think is a reasonable amount to remove the asbestos?

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

On 21/02/2022 at 22:15, Bargepole23 said:

JL have paid £5m to SCC. SCC budget for removing asbestos is £3.1m, leaving just shy of 2m for all other building services, structural and fit out works. Think they will need a bit more than the 100k they are spending on wrapping to make those sums add up.

Hmmm...

Yep - and when the final budget for making the building 'safe' inevitably passes the £5m paid to SCC, they'll have yet another excuse as to why they've decided to knock another retail space down or sell it off for much needed offices and student accommodation...

[HeHasRisen 3,403]

Just now, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

Yep - and when the final budget for making the building 'safe' inevitably passes the £5m paid to SCC, they'll have yet another excuse as to why they've decided to knock another retail space down or sell it off for much needed offices and student accommodation...

Whats wrong with building student accommodation? At least its in demand at the moment. It may have passed you by but the High Street as a concept is on its arse and nobody wants retail space.

[Meltman 313]

12 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Whats wrong with building student accommodation? At least its in demand at the moment. It may have passed you by but the High Street as a concept is on its arse and nobody wants retail space.

Well surprise surprise....last time I walked up the Moor and Pinstone Street there was approximately 50% of the retail units empty/closed up yet the 'developers' are still going ahead and building more. I wonder if all the mystery shoppers will appear out of the woodwork or the city centre will completely disappear as a retail area. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by Meltman

[HeHasRisen 3,403]

Just now, Meltman said:

Well surprise surprise....last time I walked up the Moor and Pitstone Street there was approximately 50% of the retail units empty/closed up yet the 'developers' are still going ahead and building more. I wonder if all the mystery shoppers will appear out of the woodwork or the city centre will completely disappear as a retail area. 

Well yes, thats what I dont get. Hence I dont see the issue with retail being converted into accommodation, unless Mr Bloke is somehow scared of young people coming to Sheffield and putting money into the economy.