Sheffield City Centre - The Future

[Jack Grey 1,602]

14 minutes ago, PRESLEY said:

Ive heard that Fultons has been bought out by another company, not sure if thats true or not.

Yeah they were bought by Poundland who converting some shops into Poundlands but closing most of them were there is already a Poundland

[nightrider 13]

21 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

I don't think it's a sort of issue that can be answered by some simplistic "big idea".

 

The failure of the High Street over the past decades is a fundamental issue across the entire nation. Something which is as a result of a multitude of factors, including a great many of us consumers changing our shopping habits and embracing (if not completely surrendering to) the lure of online commerce. 

 

Perplexes me that it always seems to be someone else's issue to deal with. Always someone else who has to come up with the answers. Why can't we start small, why can't it be us to kick start it.  We can't it be us that shuns the online giants and big box stores and get out there starting to support what's remaining on the high street locally. The more of us doing it, the more demand  gets created and the more the companies will listen flock to serve such needs.

 

Complete chicken egg scenario. They won't build until they know there is enough demand but we won't go until something get built.  We can't keep going round like that forever. Somebody has to make the first move. 

Even if it had shops back I would not go. Online is just too convenient. Now I only do shopping online or use very local independent shops in the suburb where I live ( as well as small independents online I have discovered when on holiday in the UK).

[ECCOnoob 1,030]

5 hours ago, nightrider said:

Even if it had shops back I would not go. Online is just too convenient. Now I only do shopping online or use very local independent shops in the suburb where I live ( as well as small independents online I have discovered when on holiday in the UK).

Out of curiosity then, if shops are no more what would you like to see High Streets used for in the alternative.

[Jack Grey 1,602]

18 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Out of curiosity then, if shops are no more what would you like to see High Streets used for in the alternative.

They should close all the shops and turn the Fargate into an area for bars, restaurants and cafes

 

Its a fantastic pedestrianised space that could have outside seating and entertainment spaces which successfully incorporate Chapel Walk for smaller more niche bohemian venues 

[ECCOnoob 1,030]

From what I've seen on the plans some of the units at least are going to be that. Certainly believe the old Next unit is going to be leisure facilities.  I also agree with what you say about Chapel Walk and it could have some viability now that parts of High Street and Haymarket or lurching towards residential, as long as they actually have a sound business proposition to pay their way as rents will never be discounted for such location.

 

However I must admit I do find the repeated suggestions and proposals involving outdoor  seating space a bit perplexing . Although it looks very nice for example when Peace Gardens does it - it seems to last for a very limited times of the Year.

 

Realistically there are huge periods of time when it's either peeing down with rain or freezing cold. Let's face it,  most of us certainly will not be prepared to sit outside for long periods enjoying a lovely martini or Caesar salad in the March drizzle with a gale blowing up Fargate.  

Edited February 15, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

23 minutes ago, Jack Grey said:

They should close all the shops and turn the Fargate into an area for bars, restaurants and cafes

 

Its a fantastic pedestrianised space that could have outside seating and entertainment spaces which successfully incorporate Chapel Walk for smaller more niche bohemian venues 

Hmmm...

If we close all the shops, who exactly is going to use all these bars, restaurants and cafes?

 

Bars and restaurants will presumably be used mainly at night, and no-one is going to pop into town just for a coffee.

 

The town centre will be totally empty during the day with perhaps the exception of office workers...

... if in fact they've not all changed their normal routine by then, and are now working from home.

[redruby 279]

19 hours ago, Cyclecar said:

The freeholds in the city centre ( any city centre) are invariably held by large property companies, or big financial institutions.  They maximise their returns by charging as high a rental as they can achieve. In turn, this is only affordable by large retailers. When their business model falters - for whatever reason - they close.  But the landlords still want top dollar, otherwise their properties lose book value, and their balance sheets wither.  Its a vicious circle. 

 

It was sad to see Stone the Crows close their funky shop on Barkers Pool, a big rent hike  being a factor, I believe. And I think SCC was the landlord!

 

Any up and coming retail business with a good idea cannot contemplate city centre premises, so they set up on the edge of town (as well as online). And if that business involves customers taking away  bulky objects,  then access to their vehicle is fundamental. I seem to remember that SCC wanted IKEA  to set up in the city centre - could you get a flat-pack BIlly bookcase onto a 'bus?  Watch customers coming out of Dunelm on Chesterfield Road, they all have sizeable purchases, is it any wonder Dunelm chose that location rather than set up on the "high street", and by the way they are successful. 

 

I agree with previous posters, the outlook is grim. I fear it could get worse before it gets better. 

Good point about rental payments. That tends to get sidelined in discussions about high streets.  Ecclesall Road might not be in the state of the city centre but over years has changed character and become increasingly bland, dull , overpriced and some premises left empty for extended periods.  Compare this with Abbeydale Road which has loads of cool, independent cafes and restaurants.  

[ads36 217]

10 hours ago, Mr Bloke said:

Bars and restaurants will presumably be used mainly at night, and no-one is going to pop into town just for a coffee.

increasingly, people live in the city centre.

 

if we're looking for one big idea, to save the city centre, that's it right there.

 

big idea : make it a nice place that people want to live in (or near)

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

1 hour ago, ads36 said:

increasingly, people live in the city centre.

 

if we're looking for one big idea, to save the city centre, that's it right there.

 

big idea : make it a nice place that people want to live in (or near)

Hmmm...

Turning the place into an amusement park is not going to save the city centre...

[AndrewC 307]

14 hours ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

If we close all the shops, who exactly is going to use all these bars, restaurants and cafes?

 

Bars and restaurants will presumably be used mainly at night, and no-one is going to pop into town just for a coffee.

 

The town centre will be totally empty during the day with perhaps the exception of office workers...

... if in fact they've not all changed their normal routine by then, and are now working from home.

 

It's very one-dimensional to assume 'no shops = no one to use city centre facilities'?

 

Who uses all the bars restaurants and cafes on West Street? Ecclesall Road? Kelham Island? All have strong hospitality offerings, with little-to-no high street retail on them. Why would Fargate be any different, particularly if inner-city living and events were encouraged along the street as well?

 

Local residents, workers, 'tourists (local and non-local); there are swathes of other people in city centre's these days looking for more than just shops. Sure, people visiting nearby retail is a part of the market that hospitality will be looking at, but it's only one part.

 

Fargate remains probably one of the nicest streets in terms of architecture and being pedestrianised that we have in Sheffield - it would be an attractive place to eat, drink, live, etc.

Edited February 16, 2022 by AndrewC

[Victor Meldrew 33]

2 hours ago, AndrewC said:

Local residents, workers, 'tourists (local and non-local); there are swathes of other people in city centre's these days looking for more than just shops. Sure, people visiting nearby retail is a part of the market that hospitality will be looking at, but it's only one part.

 

Fargate remains probably one of the nicest streets in terms of architecture and being pedestrianised that we have in Sheffield - it would be an attractive place to eat, drink, live, etc.

I share the same misgivings as @Mr Bloke.  Although I don't live in Sheffield now, my relationship with the city goes back 40+ years. I live close enough to visit weekly and, having taken early retirement, me and the missus choose to spend the whole day there as "tourists" every Friday. We park near Endcliffe Park and spend the whole day walking all over from the west end down to town and back. We visit several establishments regularly for food & drink but I honestly don't think we'd make the effort to walk into the centre if there wasn't a substantial retail offering as well. Ok the city centre won't live or die as a result of our patronage but if Sheffield centre wants to attract tourists, good retail definitely has to be the major part. 

[AndrewC 307]

30 minutes ago, Victor Meldrew said:

I share the same misgivings as @Mr Bloke.  Although I don't live in Sheffield now, my relationship with the city goes back 40+ years. I live close enough to visit weekly and, having taken early retirement, me and the missus choose to spend the whole day there as "tourists" every Friday. We park near Endcliffe Park and spend the whole day walking all over from the west end down to town and back. We visit several establishments regularly for food & drink but I honestly don't think we'd make the effort to walk into the centre if there wasn't a substantial retail offering as well. Ok the city centre won't live or die as a result of our patronage but if Sheffield centre wants to attract tourists, good retail definitely has to be the major part. 

Oh absolutely, and the council would be wrong to ignore retail altogether for that very reason - it still provides a part of that diverse offering that attracts local and non-local 'tourism' in to the city centre. An improved retail offering in the city centre is not a ship that has sailed entirely, but I disagree with Mr Bloke's assertion that if there were no shops on Fargate it would mean there were no potential customers for what replaced it; that's not the case for some of the places I mentioned which are heavily dominated by hospitality & leisure, and it can be true for Fargate too.

 

I actually doubt we would see a wholesale removal of all high street retail from Fargate as Jack Grey suggested, to be fair, but a move towards more hospitality & leisure would help as it is struggling at the moment to some extent. It's lost several names to the Moor which is where retailers in the city centre want to be now. A more diverse offering on Fargate would help it find a new identity.