COVID THREAD

[Chekhov 488]

9 minutes ago, redruby said:

Ok. One example of something that could have been but wasn’t was removing the patent from vaccines to help developing countries vaccinate their populations more quickly.  So now we have a situation where new variants are much more likely to develop and spread in poorer countries and then to rest of the world (hello Omicron!).  That is just one single example amongst many. It isn’t about ‘kicking the can down the road’, it is about being proactive rather than reactive. 

This is a side swerve. The fact is western governments, and ours are one of the worst, are  giving boosters to people who do not even need them rather than sending vaccines to poorer countries.

BUT, people can still catch and pass on Covid even if they are vaccinated so all these people saying "if we vaccinate the world it'll all be over" are talking ballcox. Though they are anyway because we will never have vaccinated the world, and certainly not with boosters every few soddin' months !

[Chekhov 488]

1 minute ago, Hecate said:

I'm certainly talking about the irrational, but I was thinking more of those who for some unfathomable reason imagine that their pronouncements should be considered with equivalent weight to those from scientists who've trained for decades.  Such hubris is staggering, and I'm genuinely interested in how someone arrives at the point where not only do they believe that, but are also happy to put in on display for all to see. 

Different scientists say different things, have you no picked up on that ?

BUT, you seem to be saying scientists are always right  ! In actual fact they have been wrong more than they have been right. I could quote loads of examples of them being wrong, but let;s just go with one, and I'd like you to accept this not just ignore it :

 

July 2021 :

"scientists" and other over cautious "experts" were saying that England should not get rid of masks and stuff because it was "highly irresponsible" and we could have up to 200,000 infections a day.  No we should keep the suppression measures on "like Scotland and Wales".

 

What actually happened was the peak infection rate was 55,000 on the 17 July, "Freedom day" was on the 19th July and cases dropped, never to reach that peak (a peak attained when masks and stuff were mandated) !

Even more surprising, to the "experts" (who, according to you are usually - or always - right) was what happend in Scotland and Wales, their hospitalisations were worse than ours ! :

 

England : No mask mandate since 19th July (to 30th Nov), no vaccine passport (to 10th Dec)

Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)

Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct

 

Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21, the last date for which the change in mandate cannot have had any effect)

England : 103.7

Scotland : 118.5

Wales : 141.3

 

Deaths from any cause within 28 days of a positive Covid test
Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.
Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =
England = 95.4 / 1.69
Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93
Wales = 5.7 / 1.78

 

Populations : Eng = 56.4m, Scotland = 5.5m, Wales = 3.2m

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=England

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Scotland

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nation&areaName=Wales

[El Cid 216]

43 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Absolutely, (I assume you are talking about the pro suppressionists and the irrationally scared populations, you know the kind of people who are in favour of vaccine passports when they cannot possibly work).

Those scared people will now be greater in number, due to the tone of the 8pm screening. They might not work, but it will reduce the number attending, which will work.

Its not possible for Boris to be honest, it suits his purpose to spread fear.

[redruby 279]

39 minutes ago, L00b said:

That is not quite correct, in that it was always in the gift of each government (and still is) to grant licenses under such patents, to any third party (other than the patented/its licensees) willing to manufacture (/import/export/etc) the vaccine, for supplying its healthcare services with it, without liability for infringement.
 

In the UK this is called ‘Crown Use’, see Section 55 of the Patents Act. The national patent legislation of every country I’m aware of, includes equivalent provisions.

 

The fact that (to my knowledge-) no country has invoked these measures, is a consequence of political in- (or non-)decision, not of big pharma filing patent applications for its R&D output. Considering the sheer amounts of public funding behind big pharma Covid-related R&D, its rather an odd in- (or non-)decision, as well.

 

But all of the above remains subject to big pharma having actually filed patent applications in these developing countries in the first place. Because if big pharma did not (or is out of time to extend their original UK/US/E/other first filings to these developing countries), then manufacturers there, can do any local production that they want/need (-provided that they have the relevant knowledge/‘recipe’).

I’ll bow to greater knowledge in vaccine patents. What I am sure on though is that this is a global issue and if developing countries don’t have access to vaccinate their population then the whole covid merry go round will go on and on while Covid has the perfect environment to spreads and mutate in large numbers of unvaccinated and partially vaccinated people. And this is just one issue. Other issues are inadequate ventilation in schools, lack of support for people in some types of employment to self isolate etc etc

Its very defeatist to just give up and say we have to ‘live with covid’ whilst lurching from one crisis to another.  

[Chekhov 488]

The Times - 13 Dec 21 (p8) :

 

"Focus on the variant [not the Downing St Xmas party], Zahawi tells the media"

 

Is any comment necessary ?

 

[pattricia 575]

My friend Gloria refused to have any jabs at all right from the beginning of Covid. She died last month in hospital from Covid !

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Different scientists say different things, have you no picked up on that ?

BUT, you seem to be saying scientists are always right  ! ...

This is an excellent example of what I mean.  You don't have a clue, do you, why I've highlighted these two points.  But yes.  Yes, I have picked up on that, funnily enough, and no I did not say, and I would never say, that scientists are always right.

[petemcewan 27]

Chekhov.

 

Some good points you have made.

 

Just a question for you. In your opinion,what is it that the authorities want to achieve by imposing vaccine passports and (possibly) compulsory vaccination?

 

Apparently there has been one death today attributed to the Omicron Variant . 

[HeHasRisen 3,394]

Project Fear in full swing today, with a throwaway comment from Boris about ONE death from Omicron. No further details provided: no age, no vaccination status, no underlying conditions details. no details if they were in hospital for something else anyway.

 

Pathetic.

Edited December 13, 2021 by HeHasRisen

[Chekhov 488]

8 minutes ago, Hecate said:

This is an excellent example of what I mean.  You don't have a clue, do you, why I've highlighted these two points.  But yes.  Yes, I have picked up on that, funnily enough, and no I did not say, and I would never say, that scientists are always right.

So, do you admit they were completely wrong last July ?

And so why should we believe more of their scaremongering ?

I'll put my cards on the table. I think Omicron will be a massive over reaction. There I have done so, I have taken the risk to say so, but if I am right I do not want to hear anyone else saying "it's arrogant hubris to dismiss these expert scientist's advice" . Never ever again, particularly after they were also so far wrong about July's "Freedom day".

[HeHasRisen 3,394]

Just now, Chekhov said:

 

I'll put my cards on the table. I think Omicron will be a massive over reaction.

I dont disagree. In the end it could prove the thing that kicks the more extreme variants into the long grass and gets this over quicker, who knows.

[Chekhov 488]

4 minutes ago, HeHasRisen said:

Project Fear in full swing today, with a throwaway comment from Boris about ONE death from Omicron. No further details provided: no age, no vaccination status, no underlying conditions details.

 

Pathetic.

Absolutely. I'll bet the government were delighted someone has died with Covid, absolutely happy as Larry (though I would love to know some more details, age, previous health issues, present health issues, vaccinated or not etc etc).

Do I sound cynical ?

That's because i am, big time.