Anna B 1,365 #1 Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) Can anyone help with this? I have a friend who is deperate to see her husband who is in a care facility a 2 hour drive away from home, (it's a long story.) She has been denied access, because the home has an out break of Covid. She has been tripple jabbed and her husband has also been tripple jabbed, but no joy. She delivered some things for him, but was denied access. However she caught a brief glimpse of him through a window and was shocked at the deterioration in his appearance, his weight loss, frailty and his general distress. She was so disturbed she phoned around, and was told that legally people in care homes could have visits from one designated visitor. So, armed with this information, she returned the next day, (another 2 hour trip) but was still refused admission and had to stand outside in the cold, on the grounds that 'this is a hospital, those rules don't apply to us.' Her argument is that 'if it looks like a care home, and acts like a care home, it's a care home.' She was invited to a Zoom meeting by email to discuss his care but it's in over a week's time, and she fears this might be too late. She also noticed that all the curtains were closed at 11.30am and one window was covered in brown paper and sellotape. She has phoned since and has had trouble getting the phone answered, and when it has been answered she felt people were being very cagey. And the person she really wanted to speak to, the Manager, 'was in a meeting, but would phone her back.' She didn't. This has fuelled her distress, and she now feels that he's going to die, and she wants to get in there urgently. He's in a place a long way from home with strangers. She wants to remove him and bring him home. I don't know if she's over reacting or what to tell her. I know there are some legal people on SF. What is her Legal position, and what should she do? Edited November 24, 2021 by Anna B Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Delbow 666 #2 Posted November 24, 2021 It may be an idea for her to contact her local Healthwatch, who are likely to be aware of the current legal position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
whiteowl 52 #3 Posted November 24, 2021 Firstly, I'm not a lawyer and she should definately get legal advice. I recall a story from the first lockdown of a woman trying to pull her mother out of a care home and getting arrested for it as she didn't have Lasting Power of Attorney over her mothers health and welfare. I think it's something to do with who is legally responsible for the care. Story here: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/nov/05/family-plead-for-change-to-care-home-rules-after-daughters-arrest Lasting Power of Attorney stuff here: https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney Hopefully, someone on the forum more knowledgeable than me can shed some more light but I think the first port of call would be a lawyer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
The_DADDY 3,349 #4 Posted November 24, 2021 Wow. That's terrible. I wish I had some advice for you. All I can say is I hope your friend gets this resolved ASAP 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B 1,365 #5 Posted November 24, 2021 I know she can't get power of attorney because he has to give consent, and sign, which he is not able to do. Anyone know how she stands for visiting. I feel this might set her mind at rest, but she can't get in to see him for herself. Yet she was allowed to visit him in hospital on a ward that had Covid because he was in a side ward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
silverglade5 22 #6 Posted November 24, 2021 Drastic as it sounds, it may be that the police could help if your friend really feels her husband is in real danger through neglect. There was a case where a desperate care home resident was so thirsty and his needs consistently ignored that he rang the police from his room and they did intervene. In your friend's case, they couldn't say it was just a civil matter if her husband's life is in danger. This is worth considering, at least it would shake up the home and make them aware of their responsibilities if these were lacking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
The_DADDY 3,349 #7 Posted November 24, 2021 38 minutes ago, silverglade5 said: Drastic as it sounds, it may be that the police could help if your friend really feels her husband is in real danger through neglect. There was a case where a desperate care home resident was so thirsty and his needs consistently ignored that he rang the police from his room and they did intervene. In your friend's case, they couldn't say it was just a civil matter if her husband's life is in danger. This is worth considering, at least it would shake up the home and make them aware of their responsibilities if these were lacking. Definitely sounds drastic but I can't disagree with any of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
trastrick 866 #8 Posted November 25, 2021 (edited) Truly a disgusting state of affairs, that should not be allowed to stand by any civilized society. But you live in a Nanny State. Call your Nanny! The government is the answer. Social Services, Councilors, County Officials and all the way up to your MP. They are all care about you and are anxious to help you, so they claim. "In England, more than one million people work in local government across a range of different types of authorities, providing more than 800 different services to local communities. Local councils, which is the most common type of local authority, are made up of councillors who are elected by the public in local elections. Councillors work with local people and partners, such as local businesses and other organisations, to agree and deliver on local priorities. The decisions are implemented by permanent council staff, council officers, who deliver services on a daily basis" Seriously I would document all your efforts to deal with these bureaucrats, in case your worst fears are well founded. Names, dates, calls, responses! Where I live the family and community friends would forcefully go in and take him home. Edited November 25, 2021 by trastrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
hauxwell 235 #9 Posted November 25, 2021 I can’t say I disagree with phoning the police either. Also the council and ask if there is an emergency phone number for adult social care. isn’t there also a Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman? It will be interesting to know how this plays out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B 1,365 #10 Posted November 26, 2021 She's phoned several people including social care in the Town where her husband is, but people aren't getting back to her. It's now the weekend and things seem to close down over the weekend. She's been trying to get a face to face phone call through to him but struggles with tech. They say they'll help but he's asleep and they will do it when he's awake but then theyv'e forgotten. Say they're understaffed as some of the staff are off with covid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
The_DADDY 3,349 #11 Posted November 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, Anna B said: She's phoned several people including social care in the Town where her husband is, but people aren't getting back to her. It's now the weekend and things seem to close down over the weekend. She's been trying to get a face to face phone call through to him but struggles with tech. They say they'll help but he's asleep and they will do it when he's awake but then theyv'e forgotten. Say they're understaffed as some of the staff are off with covid. This all sounds very shifty to me. Its as though they are deliberately hiding something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
S35_2o21 32 #12 Posted November 26, 2021 On 24/11/2021 at 17:51, Anna B said: Can anyone help with this? I have a friend who is deperate to see her husband who is in a care facility a 2 hour drive away from home, (it's a long story.) She has been denied access, because the home has an out break of Covid. She has been tripple jabbed and her husband has also been tripple jabbed, but no joy. She delivered some things for him, but was denied access. However she caught a brief glimpse of him through a window and was shocked at the deterioration in his appearance, his weight loss, frailty and his general distress. She was so disturbed she phoned around, and was told that legally people in care homes could have visits from one designated visitor. So, armed with this information, she returned the next day, (another 2 hour trip) but was still refused admission and had to stand outside in the cold, on the grounds that 'this is a hospital, those rules don't apply to us.' Her argument is that 'if it looks like a care home, and acts like a care home, it's a care home.' She was invited to a Zoom meeting by email to discuss his care but it's in over a week's time, and she fears this might be too late. She also noticed that all the curtains were closed at 11.30am and one window was covered in brown paper and sellotape. She has phoned since and has had trouble getting the phone answered, and when it has been answered she felt people were being very cagey. And the person she really wanted to speak to, the Manager, 'was in a meeting, but would phone her back.' She didn't. This has fuelled her distress, and she now feels that he's going to die, and she wants to get in there urgently. He's in a place a long way from home with strangers. She wants to remove him and bring him home. I don't know if she's over reacting or what to tell her. I know there are some legal people on SF. What is her Legal position, and what should she do? The Care Quality Commission (CQC) are the regulator for care homes and hospitals. Contact details are: https://www.cqc.org.uk/contact-us. The CQC will take calls from members of the public, so you could ring them but it may be better if your friend contacts them. Your friend could try the Adult Social Care Safeguarding (Google will have the phone number) team for the Local Authority where the home is- that could at least mean that this could be looked at. Particularly if there has been a recent decline. Maybe try the local GP surgery or which ever GP supports the care home (she might have to ring around neighbouring practices). Some care providers have been extremely cautious about visitors during COVID. Has the care home asked visitors to be have an LFT, or proof of a recent, negative PCR. This could be something your friend could offer. Could she offer a window visit, or has the home got provision to do a garden visit (not ideal due to the weather)? As #3 has commented, relatives have got in to serious trouble by removing people from care homes. Does your friend have LPA for her partner? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...