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Compulsory Vaccination?

Compulsory Vaccination?  

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it morally acceptable for a country to make covid vaccination compulsory for the general population?

    • Yes, in some countries the situation in sufficiently bad that this can reasonably be considered.
      29
    • No, while compulsory mass vaccination is not morally wrong under all circumstances, it is wrong for covid at this time.
      4
    • No, compulsory mass vaccination is always wrong.
      29


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1 hour ago, nikki-red said:

I’m far from being scared of covid, I’ve worked on a hospital ward for the entirety of the pandemic.

I wear a mask when I go shopping because I would be mortified if I thought I had passed something on to someone more vulnerable than myself. Therefore I take precautions to make sure it won’t happen.

Some people have no choice, they have to go shopping, vulnerable or not.

You can have your little protest and go to Tesco without a mask, but it’s not all about you.

My next door-but-one neighbour is in his 80s. I’ve been shopping for him a few times but he used to actually like going himself. He worries now tho, gets really anxious when he sees people not wearing masks.

If wearing one means other people around me feel safer and more confident then that’s another reason I’m willing to do so.

Exactly. It’s not all for yourself, it’s for others as well 

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1 hour ago, Hecate said:

Imagine if a consequence of infection by this wretched virus was dicks dropping off.  Infected?  Bam!  Your dick drops off.  This utterly selfish cuntery of man babies refusing to do something that might help others because of 'freedoms' would never have been a thing.  Or perhaps it would.  Because of course that would never happen to them, would it?

But it doesn't so that's an irrelevant thing to say.

What Covid actually does (to the unvaccinated) is kill less than 1 in 100 of those infected and the average age of those dying is mid 80s, still a reasonable age even these days.

Since vaccination, I would think the death rate per infection must be WAY better than 1 in 1000.

If you think it's worth changing society to try and get that down even further I think it is reasonable to describe that as irrational.

 

And personally I think the "man babies" are those sheeplikes following all these horrible measures ( I hate seeing other people in masks much less having pressure put on me to wear one) for a virus with death rate way better than 1 in 1000 and in any case there is precious little evidence it makes any significant difference.

Some facts ? 

Good idea ! :

 

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)
 
England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport
Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)
Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct
 
Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21))
England : 103.7
Scotland : 118.5
Wales : 141.3
 
Deaths (from any cause) within 28 days of a positive Covid test
Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.
Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =
England = 95.4 / 1.69
Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93
Wales = 5.7 / 1.78
 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

But it doesn't so that's an irrelevant thing to say.

What Covid actually does (to the unvaccinated) is kill less than 1 in 100 of those infected and the average age of those dying is mid 80s, still a reasonable age even these days.

Since vaccination, I would think the death rate per infection must be WAY better than 1 in 1000.

If you think it's worth changing society to try and get that down even further I think it is reasonable to describe that as irrational.

 

And personally I think the "man babies" are those sheeplikes following all these horrible measures ( I hate seeing other people in masks much less having pressure put on me to wear one) for a virus with death rate way better than 1 in 1000 and in any case there is precious little evidence it makes any significant difference.

Some facts ? 

Good idea ! :

 

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)
 
England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport
Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)
Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct
 
Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21))
England : 103.7
Scotland : 118.5
Wales : 141.3
 
Deaths (from any cause) within 28 days of a positive Covid test
Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.
Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =
England = 95.4 / 1.69
Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93
Wales = 5.7 / 1.78
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Hecate said:

... As I'm sure the incoming posts will continue to demonstrate in detail and at length.

And there we are.  Glorious.

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5 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

Exactly. It’s not all for yourself, it’s for others as well 

I am sick of hearing this, sick to the back teeth in fact.

I have had this conversation many times with people and it goes something like this :

 

I am wearing  mask to protect others

Why if they are vaccinated ?

Because not everyone is vaccinated (I assume they mean everyone vulnerable to Covid as it does not really matter if healthy people under 40 are not vaccinated)

Who do you know that is vulnerable to Covid is not vaccinated ?

Well I don't  actually know anyone who is vulnerable but unvaccinated, but I'm sure there are some out there........

 

It does not really matter if healthy people under 40 are unvaccinated :

 

AGEUK-death-rate-per-age-group-popn-tota

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10 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Some facts ? 

 

 

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)
 

 

The figures you keep posting don't support your narrative, correlation is not causation.

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Tony Blair comes out with some real BS sometimes, he has just been on R4 saying this :

"We have been arguing for months that vaccine manufacture be repurposed for Covid vaccines".

Doesn't that mean that vaccines for other (potentially more deadly and certainly ones which will affect younger people) illnesses will be reduced ?

And if so that is absolutely typical of over reaction to Covid as opposed to all other illnesses which kill far more people, and at a younger age.

Edited by Chekhov

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40 minutes ago, fools said:

The figures you keep posting don't support your narrative, correlation is not causation.

They don't to people who do not want to see anything.

How about Peru, the most draconian mask mandate right from the start.

Did it help them ?

Er no, they have by far the highest Covid death rate in the world.

Or Germany with a more draconian mask mandate than ours (even before July) ?

Their death rate is well over twice ours at the moment.

 

I admit these facts do not prove  masks have no effect, but they do prove that, at best, they can only be having a effect on the margin, and that is no where near the bar needed to force everyone to wear them, no where near.

 

BUT, we are forgetting something, FFP3 masks work well enough to protect the user. So people can wear them if they are (irrationally) scared enough of Covid, they should protect themselves not force others to make some semi useless attempt to do it for them.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

They don't to people who do not want to see anything.

How about Peru, the most draconian mask mandate right from the start.

Did it help them ?

Er no, they have by far the highest Covid death rate in the world.

Or Germany with a more draconian mask mandate than ours (even before July) ?

Their death rate is well over twice ours at the moment.

 

I admit these facts do not prove  masks have no effect, but they do prove that, at best, they can only be having a effect on the margin, and that is no where near the bar needed to force everyone to wear them, no where near.

 

BUT, we are forgetting something, FFP3 masks work well enough to protect the user. So people can wear them if they are (irrationally) scared enough of Covid, they should protect themselves not force others to make some semi useless attempt to do it for them.

There is something else that pro suppressionists are inconsistent about.

Quite often people point out that Sweden (with its very light touch restrictions) has had a lower death rate than us.

The suppressionists reply but Sweden's death rate is higher than other Scandanavian countries, implying that proves that suppression works and thus that they are prepared to accept that difference between different countries proves something they want to be true.

Yet, when different areas of the same country indicate very strongly that masks and vaccine passports do not work (as is the case between England, Scotland and Wales), it's "Oh no, correlation is not causation".

It's inconsistent and it would be nice for them to admit it, but I won't hold my breath.....

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6 hours ago, Chekhov said:

But it doesn't so that's an irrelevant thing to say.

What Covid actually does (to the unvaccinated) is kill less than 1 in 100 of those infected and the average age of those dying is mid 80s, still a reasonable age even these days.

Since vaccination, I would think the death rate per infection must be WAY better than 1 in 1000.

If you think it's worth changing society to try and get that down even further I think it is reasonable to describe that as irrational.

 

And personally I think the "man babies" are those sheeplikes following all these horrible measures ( I hate seeing other people in masks much less having pressure put on me to wear one) for a virus with death rate way better than 1 in 1000 and in any case there is precious little evidence it makes any significant difference.

Some facts ? 

Good idea ! :

 

Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)
 
England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport
Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)
Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct
 
Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21))
England : 103.7
Scotland : 118.5
Wales : 141.3
 
Deaths (from any cause) within 28 days of a positive Covid test
Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.
Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =
England = 95.4 / 1.69
Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93
Wales = 5.7 / 1.78
 

 

A reasonable age to die , really . 

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8 hours ago, Chekhov said:

They don't to people who do not want to see anything.

 

Nope, I'm reading what you presented properly, with a critical eye, instead of taking it at face value.

 

You are doing what the government, media and your opponents do, finding some stats that seemingly match your narrative, and ignoring all the buts, all the footnotes.

 

"Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test"    If anyone spent 5 minutes, they could come up with 20 explanations as to why this figure might vary, perhaps one country isn't quite as good at manipulating figures for example, perhaps one country dumped all their ill people into care homes, perhaps they were useless at infection control, and they all caught it in hospital. Perhaps one country shoved that swab into your eye socket and had a good rummage around a bit more.

 

You can find quite a few mask wearing nations that have done far better, why not quote them.

 

There's no convincing the authoritarian left, they aren't going to change their mind.

Edited by fools

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1 hour ago, fools said:

You can find quite a few mask wearing nations that have done far better, why not quote them.

 

 

Maybe because correlation is not causation. In any case which nations have done better and in what way is more to the point?

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