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Compulsory Vaccination?

Compulsory Vaccination?  

62 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it morally acceptable for a country to make covid vaccination compulsory for the general population?

    • Yes, in some countries the situation in sufficiently bad that this can reasonably be considered.
      29
    • No, while compulsory mass vaccination is not morally wrong under all circumstances, it is wrong for covid at this time.
      4
    • No, compulsory mass vaccination is always wrong.
      29


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1 hour ago, whiteowl said:

As for the unmasked being freedom fighters, it reminds me of an old saying:

"One mans freedom fighter is another mans toddler having a tantrum"

No you've got that wrong, as I'm sure you know, it's actually "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter".

You are scared of Covid (no idea why if you're vaccinated as you are far more likely or die of heart disease or a stroke or a dozen other things) so you want to wear a mask and force others to also do so even though the evidence for their effectiveness is poor anyway *. But I am not scared of Covid and I value my freedoms. I say "freedoms", we are talking a like they are something out of the ordinary, not something we took for granted for a thousand years.

 

* Do masks and vaccine passports prevent Covid illness and deaths ? (3 Dec 21)
 
England : No mask mandate since July, no vaccine passport
Scotland : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 1st Oct (enforced since 18th Oct)
Wales : Mask mandate still in force from last year, vaccine passport since 11th Oct
 
Patients in hospital with a positive Covid test per million popn (on 3rd Dec 21))
England : 103.7
Scotland : 118.5
Wales : 141.3
 

Deaths from any cause within 28 days of a positive Covid test

Last date for which full data is available is 26 Nov for Eng and Scot and 25 Nov for Wales.

Number of deaths 7 day average / per million popn =

England = 95.4 / 1.69 

Scotland = 10.6 / 1.93

Wales = 5.7 / 1.78

 

 

 

Edited by Chekhov

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53 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

And yet, ironically, it’s these “freedom fighters” that could in theory end up contributing to us all losing our freedoms completely again, ie everywhere closing. 
 

That is counter intuitive. You are saying doing everything these people say will mean they will be less likely to ask us to do so again = 180 degrees wrong.

Wearing masks and all the other non pharmaceutical interventions suppressing society will not bring an end to this nightmare one second sooner.

But, of course, that depends on ones definition of this nightmare ending. To some people that means when they are no danger at all from Covid (not that that will ever happen). To me it will not be over till we are 100% back to normal. Whilst ever we are changing society because of Covid, Covid is winning and we are losing. It amazes me people cannot see that, it;s because there is too much irrational fear out there.

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1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Actually they will comply because they don't want to be seen as described in the media, anti-science zealots, who are willing to put themselves, their families, their neighbors, their fellow countrymen at great risk

LOL... nope :loopy:

 

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or god forbid, Trump supporters" willing to kill others, for their own selfish ends.

Jesus you just can't help yourself! :hihi:

 

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You can't really blame the sheep in this new woke, cancel culture!

Trump targets Nike as Kaepernick ads spark boycott calls:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nike-kaepernick-idUSKCN1LL1WS

 

A list of people and things Donald Trump tried to get cancelled before he railed against 'cancel culture':

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/07/politics/fact-check-trump-cancel-culture-boycotts-firings/index.html

 

With Liz Cheney’s ouster, the GOP is officially the cancel culture party:

https://www.fastcompany.com/90635774/with-liz-cheneys-ouster-the-gop-is-officially-the-cancel-culture-party

 

Conservatives claim to hate "cancel culture" — but it's the heart of the right-wing agenda

https://www.salon.com/2021/05/01/conservatives-claim-to-hate-cancel-culture--but-its-the-heart-of-the-right-wing-agenda/

 

"Woke" you say...

 

...or just another example of your rank hypocrisy? :roll:

 

 

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It's actually public villification they fear.

...which, somewhat ironically, is a Trump modus operandi and legacy of his presidency!

 

You know what "RINO" means, and why it's used... right? :?

 

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Like in communist countries, labeled "enemies of the people"

Trump's War on the Press, the New McCarthyism, and the Threat to American Democracy:

https://www.hks.harvard.edu/publications/enemy-people-trumps-war-press-new-mccarthyism-and-threat-american-democracy

'Shortly after assuming office in January 2017, President Donald Trump accused the press of being an “enemy of the American people.”'

 

:?

 

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In other words intimidation, with possible severe consequences, loss of job, career, reputation, and peer approval.

... or life :?

 

Death threats and intimidation of public officials signal Trump’s autocratic legacy:

https://theconversation.com/death-threats-and-intimidation-of-public-officials-signal-trumps-autocratic-legacy-153281

 

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Fear is a great marshalling tool for all politicians and would be totalitarians.

All of your examples, every single one, is employed by Trump and the Republican party almost on a daily basis!

 

"Would be totalitarians" you say? :?

 

You should get yourself checked fella, it sounds a lot like you might be one of those "sheep" you mentioned earlier! :shocked: :P

 

Edited by Magilla

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11 hours ago, sibon said:

I've been in Sainsbury, Tesco and Aldi tonight.

Almost everyone masked. The unmasked were either young males in their twenties, or fifty something  blokes with a chip on each shoulder and often a bit of a sweatiness issue.

I have been in a fair number of shops and never wear a mask, I have never been challenged.

If any member of the public sought to argue with me, not that that has ever happened (and I have not worn a mask since about April) I would relish debating them into the ground. 
I would say if you are frightened of Covid "I would recommend you get vaccinated", if they say they have been vaccinated I'd say "I would recommend you study risk probability, and if that doesn't put your mind at rest I'd recommend psychological help".

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15 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

That is counter intuitive. You are saying doing everything these people say will mean they will be less likely to ask us to do so again = 180 degrees wrong.

Wearing masks and all the other non pharmaceutical interventions suppressing society will not bring an end to this nightmare one second sooner.

But, of course, that depends on ones definition of this nightmare ending. To some people that means when they are no danger at all from Covid (not that that will ever happen). To me it will not be over till we are 100% back to normal. Whilst ever we are changing society because of Covid, Covid is winning and we are losing. It amazes me people cannot see that, it;s because there is too much irrational fear out there.

You are right about the “irrational fear “

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43 minutes ago, melthebell said:

Indeed, that bit of irony seems to fly over their small, narrow minded heads

Imagine if a consequence of infection by this wretched virus was dicks dropping off.  Infected?  Bam!  Your dick drops off.  This utterly selfish cuntery of man babies refusing to do something that might help others because of 'freedoms' would never have been a thing.  Or perhaps it would.  Because of course that would never happen to them, would it?

Edited by Hecate

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I’m far from being scared of covid, I’ve worked on a hospital ward for the entirety of the pandemic.

I wear a mask when I go shopping because I would be mortified if I thought I had passed something on to someone more vulnerable than myself. Therefore I take precautions to make sure it won’t happen.

Some people have no choice, they have to go shopping, vulnerable or not.

You can have your little protest and go to Tesco without a mask, but it’s not all about you.

My next door-but-one neighbour is in his 80s. I’ve been shopping for him a few times but he used to actually like going himself. He worries now tho, gets really anxious when he sees people not wearing masks.

If wearing one means other people around me feel safer and more confident then that’s another reason I’m willing to do so.

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2 minutes ago, Hecate said:

Imagine if a consequence of infection by this wretched virus was dicks dropping off.  Infected?  Bam!  Your dick drops off.  This utterly selfish cuntery of man babies refusing to do something that might help others because of 'freedoms'would never have been a thing.  Or perhaps it would.  Because of course that would never happen to them, would it?

Well said

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Sorry to snip your excellent post, but...

 

5 minutes ago, nikki-red said:

... but it’s not all about you.

Yeah, it is.  As I'm sure the incoming posts will continue to demonstrate in detail and at length.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Hecate said:

Sorry to snip your excellent post, but...

 

Yeah, it is.  As I'm sure the incoming posts will continue to demonstrate in detail and at length.

 

 

Mercifully, the real world evidence of high levels of compliance with health advice, demonstrates that the (mostly) man-babies are a very small minority of the population.

 

They are noisy though.

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To get back on topic tho, I’ve actually changed my mind to an extent about compulsory vaccinations, from an NHS/STH point of view anyway.

When they announced there was a deadline for staff to have the vaccines or risk losing their jobs I thought it was terrible, but part of working for STH is agreeing to their PROUD values. The ‘P’ standing for ‘Patients First’.

If having the vaccine is part of putting Patients First but you refuse to have it then, although it still makes me a bit uneasy to say it, maybe you should question if you’re in the right job. 

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27 minutes ago, sibon said:

Mercifully, the real world evidence of high levels of compliance with health advice, demonstrates that the (mostly) man-babies are a very small minority of the population.

 

They are noisy though.

The 💩 in the pool effect though.  One fetid little turd in the shallow end potentially contaminates a lot of water.

 

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