Compulsory Vaccination?

[The_DADDY 3,459]

2 hours ago, RJRB said:

That could have been written by Daddy,but he prefers one liners or even one worders.

True. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by The_DADDY

[Chekhov 488]

11 hours ago, RJRB said:

I like a bit of logic,but see none in this.

“Residents are very unlikely to die of Covid because they have all been vaccinated,but care staff don’t need the vaccine..”

On that basis it seems at least advisable

It's perfectly logical. Once care home residents are vaccinated they are unlikely to die of Covid. There is still a chance, but they are far more likely to die of something else, so, relatively speaking, it's not worth worrying about. Particularly if it means their care is going to suffer due to a shortage of staff. .....

Vaccines are not that effective at stopping transmission anyway, so it is doubly pointless.

[Carbuncle 0]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Vaccines are not that effective at stopping transmission anyway, so it is doubly pointless.

This is false.

[Chekhov 488]

2 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

>>Vaccines are not that effective at stopping transmission anyway, so it is doubly pointless.<<

This is false.

 

It is not false. By disagreeing with that statement you must believe the converse to be true, i.e. vaccines are effective (implication very effective) at stopping transmission.

That is misinformation.

 

1 - I know loads of people who have caught Covid, nearly all had been vaccinated. I would have thought most people on here would also know the same. Though to be fair none ended up in hospital.

 

2 - The Times 23 Aug 21 p35 :
The former head of the vaccine taskforce [Clive Dix] has spoken out against the policy of "jabs for jobs", arguing that young people do not need to be double jabbed to go back to the office. Mr Dix said that many companies were ignorant of what double vaccination meant for their staff .  He told The Sunday Telegraph "if people are young and they get double vaccinated they'll probably get slightly less illness than if they're single dosed but most of them will be fine either way. Vaccination doesn't actually completely stop transmission, it just slows it down a bit.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jabs-for-jobs-unnecessary-says-ex-head-of-vaccine-taskforce-clive-dix-tp3zgqvzz

 

3 - The Times 22 Nov 21 (p12)

Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at Oxford, states that [Covid] vaccines should really be stopping people getting really sick, [but] kids of that age do not get really sick. Vaccines aren't very good at stopping transmission so you are not taking them to protect others.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/covid-19-vaccinations-for-children-it-depends-who-you-ask-p8tvbt5j2

 

4 - Vaccines may not cut amount of Covid virus in the body (6 Aug 21)

BBC Coronavirus report

Edited December 1, 2021 by Chekhov

[Chekhov 488]

Carbuncle's signature

 

"Tens of thousands of people died who didn't need to die."

 

Is a meaningless thing to say.

For a start you should have said :

"Tens of thousands of people died earlier than they otherwise would who didn't need to die earlier than they otherwise would."

 

But more to the point, if you were talking about excessively fat people who died young  you could legitimately change that to

 

"Hundreds of thousands of people died earlier than they otherwise would who didn't need to die earlier than they otherwise would."

Edited December 1, 2021 by Chekhov

[Carbuncle 0]

37 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

By disagreeing with that statement you must believe the converse to be true, i.e. vaccines are effective (implication very effective) at stopping transmission.

That is misinformation.

I do believe the vaccine are very effective at stopping transmission. Thank you for not throwing up a strawman and correctly assessing my view. Every week the Health Security Agency (UK HSA) publishes a vaccine surveillance report in which, amongst other things, they update estimates of the effect of the vaccines on infection and transmission( https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-surveillance-reports ). And each week they conclude they are highly effective at reducing transmission.

 

It is also possible to look directly at the data and see something of the effectiveness of the vaccines at stopping transmission. For example, the alpha variant which was such a threat in the second wave has (virtually?) disappeared!. Further, delta (which is known to be more contagious than alpha which is more contagious than the classic variant which was originally such a threat) is being held roughly steady in terms of numbers. Absent the vaccine's impact on transmission it would have overwhelmed us.

30 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Carbuncle's signature

 

"Tens of thousands of people died who didn't need to die."

 

It's a quote from (the egregious) Dominic Cummings. The second wave was largely optional.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Carbuncle

[El Cid 212]

7 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Vaccines are not that effective at stopping transmission anyway, so it is doubly pointless.

They have given 90 million vaccines in England, has it worked? What would the death figures be like without those 90 million vaccinations, we dont know.

[Carbuncle 0]

5 minutes ago, El Cid said:

7 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Vaccines are not that effective at stopping transmission anyway, so it is doubly pointless.

They have given 90 million vaccines in England, has it worked? What would the death figures be like without those 90 million vaccinations, we dont know.

There are two parts to this:

(1) How has the vaccine changed the number of people who would have been infected to this point in time?

(2) How has the vaccine changed outcomes for those who are infected?

 

In both cases the effect of the vaccine has been positive and provided one is prepared be rough about ones calculations it is possible to see this from data we all have access to.

 

In regard to (1), the vaccine got us out of the lockdown of the early months of the year even though we have had to cope with the more transmissible delta variant. In regard to (2) the case fatality rate has gone from 2%, ie there was one death for every 50 cases, in the second wave to about 0.3 %, ie about one death per 350 cases, in the third wave.

[top4718 838]

On 01/12/2021 at 11:04, Carbuncle said:

This is false.

I don't believe this is false, the only people I know of with covid at the moment are double or triple jabbed  and the vaccinated have spread the new variant around the world.

 

As for Germany they should be the last country that are mandating medical procedures.

[butlers 259]

So how do we stop the vaccinated spreading it?

 

 

[Annie Bynnol 611]

31 minutes ago, top4718 said:

I don't believe this is false, the only people I know of with covid at the moment are double or triple jabbed  and the vaccinated have spread the new variant around the world.

 

As for Germany they should be the last country that are mandating medical procedures.

What special powers do you have that enabled you to tell if someone has Covid or not?

What special powers do you have that enabled you  to tell if someone has been double or triple jabbed?

In any case, like everybody else, the vast majority of people you meet will have had double or triple jabs.

As for travel -again the vast majority of international travellers will have had vaccinations.

What is the issue with Germany?

 

Really struggling to find any substance to your Conspirancy Theory as you are struggling to find any coherent evidence.

[butlers 259]

Germany ,after testing ,announced it had had the new variant on it's territory before the SA government made it's announcement.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by butlers