Compulsory Vaccination?

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

My point is not illogical, and you have finally answered it by saying you think the mask mandate will be dropped. I hope you are right nut wish I had your optimism over that, particularly in hospitals. Fortunately I do not work in a hospital.

It is,  because it is premised on the false notion that masking for impeding Covid transmission will endure ‘forever’.  It won’t.
 

We’re centuries over the Black Plague, over a century over the Spanish Flu, over half a century over Polio, a decade over H1N1…and you didn’t see people still mitigating/masking against these in 2019, did you?

[hackey lad 3,937]

8 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

If you mean this :

 

>> saying "I have an exemption" will make them go away<<

For you maybe

 

It is obvious I just added the original question (here : >>xxxx <<), surely ?

Why do you feel the need to do that?

[RJRB 684]

Seeing as it is the first anniversary of the vaccination programme in the U.K. I attach some statistics .The source is the BBC which may cause some to automatically discount the information 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59569026

[Carbuncle 0]

Okey dokey. I have had enough of being called a pro-suppressionist when I have not advocated any tightening of UK restrictions at any point since I started posting on this thread (other than the very mild measure of quarantine for travelers from southern Africa).

 

I would like more non pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) now or possibly in the very near future if confidence in the enhanced transmissibility of Omicron needs to be firmed up. The best guess seems to be that Omicron's doubling time is 2-4 days. It almost doesn't matter how few cases of Omicron we currently have that kind of doubling time will lead to us being knee deep in Omicron very quickly. Nothing too drastic, do the relatively easier things first. People should be asked to work from home where possible. Shutdown indoor sports venues and gyms. Tighten up on masking in indoor spaces. Re-emphasise social distancing. That kind of thing. My reasoning is that by tightening things up now we may well save on time spent in harsh lockdowns down the road.

 

Oh and just to show I am really not so very pro-suppressionist I think the Government should be re-examining the rules on travelers arriving from abroad with a view to relaxing them. We already know we have Omicron cases in large numbers and we cannot hope to kill its spread with contact tracing so a few more Omis from abroad probably is not going to make much difference.

 

This could be the "wrong thing to do" if Omicron turns out to be really mild but it will not be very wrong. If Omicron is really mild, invocation of NPIs now will crush Delta and save lives while we find out that Omicron really is mild. It will also probably kill any chance of us having a flu season this Winter. Then if we really can be relaxed at the spread of Omicron we'll be starting that phase from a much better position.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Carbuncle

[onewheeldave 22]

3 hours ago, alchresearch said:

Agree. My local Sainsburys - which used to have mask patrol on the entrance - haven't bothered this time.

 

3 hours ago, hackey lad said:

Sainsburys near us have staff on the door offering masks and asking people to wear them 

It seems to vary. 

At the start of this latest mask mandate I was hoping to see mass refusal, and was dissapointed to see generally more than 50% of supermarket occupants wearing masks, and also saddened to see some supermarkets putting staff on the door to tell people to put a mask on.

But it is noticable now that there aren't many stores with the staff on the door- presumably because it must be a morale sapping experience, or maybe more of the public are indicating that they are finding it annoying.

Also several branches have done what the Co-op has done and issued a public statement that they will not be enforcing masking.

5 hours ago, Chekhov said:

 

Or do you think that the face mask mandate will be revoked for care homes and hospitals ? If so, particularly in the case of hospitals, I (and my wife who works in one) wish I had your confidence.

Some months back I asked the specialist at my endocronology appointment a question- 'in his experience, what percentage of NHS staff felt that the lockdowns and measures being applied in hospitals  were counter productive [i.e. causing more harm than good]'

 

His reply actually surprised me, he said 'most'. I expected it to be a significant percentage, but, in his experience, most NHS staff considered the measures to be doing more harm than good. He particularly mentioned the negative effects on mental health.

 

You may not want to address this on a public forum, but, if you do, with you having a wife who works in the NHS, what percentage of NHS staff would you/she say consider the measures to have done more harm than good?

[hackey lad 3,937]

3 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

 

It seems to vary. 

At the start of this latest mask mandate I was hoping to see mass refusal, and was dissapointed to see generally more than 50% of supermarket occupants wearing masks, and also saddened to see some supermarkets putting staff on the door to tell people to put a mask on.

But it is noticable now that there aren't many stores with the staff on the door- presumably because it must be a morale sapping experience, or maybe more of the public are indicating that they are finding it annoying.

Also several branches have done what the Co-op has done and issued a public statement that they will not be enforcing masking.

Some months back I asked the specialist at my endocronology appointment a question- 'in his experience, what percentage of NHS staff felt that the lockdowns and measures being applied in hospitals  were counter productive [i.e. causing more harm than good]'

 

His reply actually surprised me, he said 'most'. I expected it to be a significant percentage, but, in his experience, most NHS staff considered the measures to be doing more harm than good. He particularly mentioned the negative effects on mental health.

 

You may not want to address this on a public forum, but, if you do, with you having a wife who works in the NHS, what percentage of NHS staff would you/she say consider the measures to have done more harm than good?

Been to Crystal Peaks today, I would say 80 % wearing masks. Keep it up good people 

[top4718 838]

1 minute ago, hackey lad said:

Been to Crystal Peaks today, I would say 80 % wearing masks. Keep it up good people 

I wonder how many of these were wearing them below the nose, its usually a good few and how many are wearing them due to peer pressure (probably about 60%).

 

I'll ask again - what are the people who have started wearing them again got to fear now that they didn't fear two weeks ago?

[hackey lad 3,937]

1 minute ago, top4718 said:

I wonder how many of these were wearing them below the nose, its usually a good few and how many are wearing them due to peer pressure (probably about 60%).

 

I'll ask again - what are the people who have started wearing them again got to fear now that they didn't fear two weeks ago?

Who cares , good people are wearing them 

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

It is,  because it is premised on the false notion that masking for impeding Covid transmission will endure ‘forever’.  It won’t.

We’re centuries over the Black Plague, over a century over the Spanish Flu, over half a century over Polio, a decade over H1N1…and you didn’t see people still mitigating/masking against these in 2019, did you?

But what has changed is people's attitude to risk and death. It has been changing slowly for years, since the mid 1800s, but even before Covid it was accelerating, but Covid has turbocharged that. It is now illegal to have any rolling stock on British Railways if it has opening windows that someone could potentially put their head out of, that's how bad it is.  Remember even now, if one is vaccinated, or healthy and under 40, one is already very unlikely to die of Covid, yet we still have all these restrictions and even, apparently, a majority in favour of vaccine passports.

I desperately hope you are right, but I worry, for all those NHS employees (incl my wife), masks will be mandatory in hospitals forever.

1 hour ago, hackey lad said:

Why do you feel the need to do that?

So that other people who read your answer get the context. 

[onewheeldave 22]

3 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

A law people can easily opt out of with no need to provide proof. An absolute shambles.

Also a God send for many. Including me- my mental health has been at serious risk due to the lockdowns/measures/public acceptance of civil liberty erosion: the fact that it is looking quite possible that in the near future there are going to be compulsory vaccinations is again serious damage to my, and many others, mental health. Having a get out from being pressured to wear a mask has been a great help.

Sadly, not for everyone- I have several autistic clients who, despite being mask exempt, have been unable to use public transport or use some shops due to intimidation from some of the staff and public.

29 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

Okey dokey. I have had enough of being called a pro-suppressionist when I have not advocated any tightening of UK restrictions at any point since I started posting on this thread (other than the very mild measure of quarantine for travelers from southern Africa).

 

I would like more non pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) now or possibly in the very near future if confidence in the enhanced transmissibility of Omicron needs to be firmed up. The best guess seems to be that Omicron's doubling time is 2-4 days. It almost doesn't matter how few cases of Omicron we currently have that kind of doubling time will lead to us being knee deep in Omicron very quickly. Nothing too drastic, do the relatively easier things first. People should be asked to work from home where possible. Shutdown indoor sports venues and gyms. Tighten up on masking in indoor spaces. Re-emphasise social distancing. That kind of thing. My reasoning is that by tightening things up now we may well save on time spent in harsh lockdowns down the road.

 

Oh and just to show I am really not so very pro-suppressionist I think the Government should be re-examining the rules on travelers arriving from abroad with a view to relaxing them. We already know we have Omicron cases in large numbers and we cannot hope to kill its spread with contact tracing so a few more Omis from abroad probably is not going to make much difference.

 

 

I'd say you're not being 'called' a pro-suppressionist- simply identified as one.

You support closing gyms [again!!]. 

That is pro-suppression- it has been well established that in terms of both physical and mental health, the benefits of access to gyms far outweighs negatives of the small potential increase in transmission.

Closing gyms clearly brings no benefits, is clearly counter productive [caused more harm than good] and is clearly a suppressive measure- you support it.

[Chekhov 488]

25 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

Also several branches have done what the Co-op has done and issued a public statement that they will not be enforcing masking.

Some months back I asked the specialist at my endocronology appointment a question- 'in his experience, what percentage of NHS staff felt that the lockdowns and measures being applied in hospitals  were counter productive [i.e. causing more harm than good]'

His reply actually surprised me, he said 'most'. I expected it to be a significant percentage, but, in his experience, most NHS staff considered the measures to be doing more harm than good. He particularly mentioned the negative effects on mental health.

You may not want to address this on a public forum, but, if you do, with you having a wife who works in the NHS, what percentage of NHS staff would you/she say consider the measures to have done more harm than good?

It seems a little contradictory.

On the one hand many seem to think that the rules are illogical, and some of them OTT. Many also see the problems much of this is causing, many more do not want to be redeployed. Some are quite upset about it, they feel they joined the NHS to do one job which they have probably spent years training for,  and being moved to another job which they may not have much experience for (or enjoy as much) is not popular.

But, I get the impression, most still tow the line, certainly in what they say to each other : "people should be sticking to the rules, people have died". Whether that's what they actually think, who knows ?

[Carbuncle 0]

2 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

I'd say you're not being 'called' a pro-suppressionist- simply identified as one.

You support closing gyms [again!!]. 

That is pro-suppression- it has been well established that in terms of both physical and mental health, the benefits of access to gyms far outweighs negatives of the small potential increase in transmission.

Closing gyms clearly brings no benefits, is clearly counter productive [caused more harm than good] and is clearly a suppressive measure- you support it.

Yes, it is. People can take their exercise in less antisocial ways.