Compulsory Vaccination?

[Chekhov 488]

 

 

Provided they are not more lethal, ironically these more infectious strains of Covid may actually give more ammunitiuon to those of us fighting vaccine passports (I am vaccinated BTW)

 

"But there are additional changes that may mean antibodies induced by the vaccines, or by infection with other variants, may be less effective at preventing infection with Omicron.

"Until we know more, we should be cautious, and take steps to slow down the spread of this new variant."

However, Dame Sarah said reduced protection against infection and mild disease would not necessarily mean reduced protection against severe illness and death.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59542211

 

So, in other words, new scariants may be more infectious but, provided YOU are vaccinated (or under 40 and healthy) they may well not cause more serious illness and death, which is obviously what matters.

So that's one more reason why vaccine passports are an irrational idea, purely there to appeal to fear and ignorance.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chekhov

[Carbuncle 0]

10 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

So, in other words, new scariants may be more infectious but, provided YOU are vaccinated (or under 40 and healthy) they may well not cause more serious illness and death, which is obviously what matters.

BS. Repetition of the BS will not make it right. Reduction in transmission due to acquired immunity within the population is also important. People who are under 40 and healthy but vaccinated contribute mightily to this. This obviously also matters.

[SheffieldBricky 0]

Look here, they're blaming the upsurge in heart problems on stress! 

 

Thousands facing heart problems due to ‘post-pandemic stress disorder’ | Evening Standard

[Chekhov 488]

52 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

No. You said most people die in their mid eighties as though you think it’s ok 

It's much less sad than kids dying, or less sad than even middle aged people dying, that is what I am saying and have consistently said so right through this.

In fact, I'd be expect the great majority of people in their mid 80s to agree with me. You show me someone who is 83 who thinks their death is as sad as a child's and I'll show you someone with a personality issue, fortunately I do not think there would be many of them.

I am in my 50s and any child dying would be much sadder than me getting the chop.

 

8 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

BS. Repetition of the BS will not make it right. Reduction in transmission due to acquired immunity within the population is also important. People who are under 40 and healthy but vaccinated contribute mightily to this. This obviously also matters.

It is most certainly not BS.

As the virus becomes more infectious, which it was always going to do, and more and more easily infects people who are vaccianted, vaccine passports become of less and less use (not that they ever were much use). Disagreeing with that basic piece of logic, that's BS.

Basically, people should take personal responsibility for protecting themselves, mainly by getting vaccinated (or wearing an FFP3 mask if they are irrationally scared), and not be selfish enough to rely on others changing their lives to protect you, particularly when you can protect yourself. It's that simple.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chekhov

[Carbuncle 0]

Some documents relating to the meeting of SAGE at the end of November were released a couple of days ago. NERVTAG (New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threat Advisory Group), one of the advisory groups that feeds into SAGE released some initial observations on the omicron variant ( https://app.box.com/s/3lkcbxepqixkg4mv640dpvvg978ixjtf/file/890120528845 ). A couple of interesting points:

 

1. Some existing PCR tests can distinguish omicron from delta. This is important because it makes spotting omicron easier. I say 'some' because (I believe) more than one PCR test is in use and what NERVTAG points out is that in South Africa their PCR tests were distinguishing omicron from delta.

 

2. NERVTAG gave an estimate of omicron's reproduction number, R of 1.9 in South Africa. I take this to mean that numbers of omicron infections were doubling roughly once a week in South Africa. South Africa has lower rates of vaccination than us so we may be better off ... possibly.

 

The NERVTAG meeting is actually from the 25th November so they may have better information by now.

[Chekhov 488]

7 minutes ago, SheffieldBricky said:

Look here, they're blaming the upsurge in heart problems on stress! 

 

Thousands facing heart problems due to ‘post-pandemic stress disorder’ | Evening Standard

I can absolutely believe that. My own ticker has not been feeling its usual self (arrhythmias etc) for about a year, and it getting worse.

Ironically I am possibly even more stressed and depressed about all this Covid than I was at the same time last year. Back then we had vaccines t look forward to and everything getting back to normal. But all that has happened is people's risk aversion has ratcheted up even further to mitigate the postive effect of the vaccines.

This will never end until people get some balls.

[hackey lad 3,979]

26 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

 

 

Provided they are not more lethal, ironically these more infectious strains of Covid may actually give more ammunitiuon to those of us fighting vaccine passports (I am vaccinated BTW)

 

"But there are additional changes that may mean antibodies induced by the vaccines, or by infection with other variants, may be less effective at preventing infection with Omicron.

"Until we know more, we should be cautious, and take steps to slow down the spread of this new variant."

However, Dame Sarah said reduced protection against infection and mild disease would not necessarily mean reduced protection against severe illness and death.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59542211

 

So, in other words, new scariants may be more infectious but, provided YOU are vaccinated (or under 40 and healthy) they may well not cause more serious illness and death, which is obviously what matters.

So that's one more reason why vaccine passports are an irrational idea, purely there to appeal to fear and ignorance.

Getting suspicious of you now . You appear to be a one trick pony 

[Chekhov 488]

1 minute ago, Carbuncle said:

Some documents relating to the meeting of SAGE at the end of November were released a couple of days ago. NERVTAG (New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threat Advisory Group), one of the advisory groups that feeds into SAGE released some initial observations on the omicron variant ( https://app.box.com/s/3lkcbxepqixkg4mv640dpvvg978ixjtf/file/890120528845 ). A couple of interesting points:

1. Some existing PCR tests can distinguish omicron from delta. This is important because it makes spotting omicron easier. I say 'some' because (I believe) more than one PCR test is in use and what NERVTAG points out is that in South Africa their PCR tests were distinguishing omicron from delta.

2. NERVTAG gave an estimate of omicron's reproduction number, R of 1.9 in South Africa. I take this to mean that numbers of omicron infections were doubling roughly once a week in South Africa. South Africa has lower rates of vaccination than us so we may be better off ... possibly.

The NERVTAG meeting is actually from the 25th November so they may have better information by now.

But SA has a younger population so, on balance, they are just as well off as us, because, err, this virus is not indiscriminate (they lied about that...).

1 minute ago, hackey lad said:

Getting suspicious of you now . You appear to be a one trick pony 

Not sure what you mean. I am quite clear in my views and have been from March 2020, I think the response to Covid has been the biggest over reaction in the history of the world. And any (genuine) students of history would agree with me.

 

[Carbuncle 0]

12 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

As the virus becomes more infectious, which it was always going to do, and more and more easily infects people who are vaccianted, vaccine passports become of less and less use (not that they ever were much use). Disagreeing with that basic piece of logic, that's BS.

Strawman. I made no comment on vaccine passports.

12 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Basically, people should take personal responsibility for protecting themselves, mainly by getting vaccinated (or wearing an FFP3 mask if they are irrationally scared), and not be selfish enough to rely on others changing their lives to protect you, particularly when you can protect yourself. It's that simple.

Amazingly, you have managed to fit in another strawman.

2 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

But SA has a younger population so, on balance, they are just as well off as us, because, err, this virus is not indiscriminate (they lied about that...).

I'm sorry you did not understand the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I could have been clearer. I am concerned about the possibility of  cases of omicron in the UK doubling week after week after week pushing us into crisis. It could be, as you suggest, that cases in the UK are each individually on average less bad than those in South Africa.

[Chekhov 488]

10 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

Strawman. I made no comment on vaccine passports.

I didn't say you did, but this thread is about vaccine passports (effectively).

[Chekhov 488]

24 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

I'm sorry you did not understand the point I was trying to make. Perhaps I could have been clearer. I am concerned about the possibility of  cases of omicron in the UK doubling week after week after week pushing us into crisis. It could be, as you suggest, that cases in the UK are each individually on average less bad than those in South Africa.

I have never been that worried about Omicron. None of the variants have succeeded in stopping the vaccines excellent protection against serious illness, which is the only thing that matters. From very early on there has been evidence Omicron may well be less deadly, maybe significantly so, in which case its a godsend. Far from introducing restrictions we should have done nothing, and, if it does turnout to be significantly milder we should encourage people with it to get out there and mingle as much as possible. If it's milder I would rather catch Omicron than Delta, where can my wife and I catch it ? ! ?

 

24 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

>>Basically, people should take personal responsibility for protecting themselves, mainly by getting vaccinated (or wearing an FFP3 mask if they are irrationally scared), and not be selfish enough to rely on others changing their lives to protect you, particularly when you can protect yourself. It's that simple.<<

 

Amazingly, you have managed to fit in another strawman.

It's not a strawman, it's a  fact.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Chekhov

[RJRB 688]

46 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I can absolutely believe that. My own ticker has not been feeling its usual self (arrhythmias etc) for about a year, and it getting worse.

Ironically I am possibly even more stressed and depressed about all this Covid than I was at the same time last year. Back then we had vaccines t look forward to and everything getting back to normal. But all that has happened is people's risk aversion has ratcheted up even further to mitigate the postive effect of the vaccines.

This will never end until people get some balls.

Perhaps you are getting over obsessive by too much research and finding only confirmation of your worst fears.