Compulsory Vaccination?

[The_DADDY 3,449]

4 minutes ago, zach said:

Your reply says a lot (IMO)

Yes. It says I guess youll never know 🙄

[hackey lad 3,928]

27 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

I guess youll never know. 

But we all do, don’t we

[The_DADDY 3,449]

10 minutes ago, hackey lad said:

But we all do, don’t we

Do you? 

Then don't be shy. Spit it out 👍

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, Carbuncle said:

You are insisting that I follow your definition of 'herd immunity' when I have already explained that I mean something slightly different.

(1) More immunity in a population retards the spread of covid versus less immunity other things being equal. Any immunity retards the spread versus no immunity. Could you please acknowledge this?

(2) There is a threshold above which the level of immunity in a population causes an epidemic (under a specified, fixed set of conditions) to dwindle rather than increase in size.

Both (1) and (2) are interesting ideas which deserve names. I would tend to call (1) 'herd immunity' and (2) 'the herd immunity threshold'. You obviously feel that it is (2) that deserves the name 'herd immunity'. I can't tell from your posts whether you are even aware of (1) as a phenomenon. That is a bit frustrating to me as it's fundamental to my arguments.

Even if that's possible (and there is no concrete evidence about how well suppression works see below) there is a still a social and economic cost to trying to suppress society in order to try and suppress Covid. What I find SO depressing and frustrating about this whole Covid debate (right from the start in March 2020) is that proponents of suppression rarely acknowledge the massive social and economic cost of their avowed policies. They generally take the view "you cannot put a value on human life so any cost is acceptable". Well they're wrong, it isn't.

 

[zach 233]

48 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

Yes. It says I guess youll never know 🙄

Indeed it does use those words. How they read could mean that you'd rather not say, for whatever reason.

 

I'll keep what I think to myself. So to return the quote "you'll never know" 

 

 

[The_DADDY 3,449]

2 minutes ago, zach said:

 

I'll keep what I think to myself. So to return the quote "you'll never know" 

 

 

No, don't do that. Share what you "think" stranger from the Internet who has never met me. 

2 minutes ago, zach said:

Indeed it does use those words. How they read could mean that you'd rather not say, for whatever reason.

 

 

 

You interpreted it the way you wanted to. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by The_DADDY

[zach 233]

Just now, The_DADDY said:

No, don't do that. Share what you "think" stranger from the Internet who has never met me. 

So...hang on here.

 

I ask a simple question and you reply "you'll never know"

 

When you get the same in return, you expect an answer? Not happening 'stranger' 

[The_DADDY 3,449]

5 minutes ago, zach said:

So...hang on here.

 

I ask a simple question and you reply "you'll never know"

 

 

You asked this.... 

 

Did all your family decide, or did The_DADDY do a bit of dicatating, or maybe pushed his opinions on the other members of The_DADDY house

 

You call that a simple question? 

I call that a snide insinuation. 

You got the answer you deserved. 

If you don't like it then tough. 

[Carbuncle 0]

43 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

They generally take the view "you cannot put a value on human life so any cost is acceptable". Well they're wrong, it isn't.

This is a strawman.

44 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Even if that's possible (and there is no concrete evidence about how well suppression works see below) there is a still a social and economic cost to trying to suppress society in order to try and suppress Covid.

I just asked you to acknowledge that herd immunity (my usage) is a thing. But you are jumping ahead and talking about suppression.

 

For what it is worth, suppression obviously does work at least in the short term. Every time the restrictions were tightened in 2020 the trajectory of daily case counts responded after a short lag. Yes of course turning society upside down has costs. On the other hand, choosing to lockdown early if you are going to have lockdown at some point gives a fairly straightforward gain.

 

Are you arguing there should never have been a lockdown? Now how about acknowledging that herd immunity (my usage) really is a thing.

[zach 233]

17 minutes ago, The_DADDY said:

You asked this.... 

 

Did all your family decide, or did The_DADDY do a bit of dicatating, or maybe pushed his opinions on the other members of The_DADDY house

 

You call that a simple question? 

I call that a snide insinuation. 

You got the answer you deserved. 

If you don't like it then tough. 

Nothing snide about it, or was it meant that way. I can't help how you see a simple question, or what you want to turn it into.

 

It obviously hit a raw nerve.

[The_DADDY 3,449]

Just now, zach said:

Nothing snide about it, or was it meant that way. I can't help how you see a simple question, or what you want to turn it into.

 

 

Really? 

HeHasRisen asked a similar question. I was happy to answer him. Perhaps it's because his was a genuine question and not a snide dig like yours . 

 

[Chekhov 488]

1 hour ago, Carbuncle said:

For what it is worth, suppression obviously does work at least in the short term. Every time the restrictions were tightened in 2020 the trajectory of daily case counts responded after a short lag. Yes of course turning society upside down has costs. On the other hand, choosing to lockdown early if you are going to have lockdown at some point gives a fairly straightforward gain.

Did you not look at those graphs ? They indicate the cause and effect might not be as you surmise :

 

 

1 hour ago, Carbuncle said:

>>They generally take the view "you cannot put a value on human life so any cost is acceptable". Well they're wrong, it isn't.<<

 

This is a strawman.

It really isn't. One of the only pro suppressionists that have ever pout numbers on how much suppression is worth how many lives was Labour journalist and campaigner Mike Buckley, who I heard on the radio saying "all secondary school pupils wearing masks would be worth it to save one life".

That quite obviously sounds ludicrous, and that's why so few of them ever put a figure on it because when they do it sounds, well, ludicrous.

Edited November 26, 2021 by Chekhov