Compulsory Vaccination?

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

6 minutes ago, RollingJ said:

Actually, how do you know I understood it? And to answer it - personally, I wouldn't care.

Hmmm...

This is all getting a bit confusing now, Mr Rolling!

Was that a rhetorical question, or a theoretical question?

[Chekhov 488]

5 hours ago, crazyhorse said:

Just for the record...I have  never advocated "holding people down and forcibly vaccinating them"...as that would obviously be against medical ethics (and the law).

Although adults are entitled to exercise their personal choice and refuse the jab...I consider that to be selfish and anti-social behavior.

 

I also believe that those that actively refuse a safe COVID vaccine without a medical exemption should be barred from certain jobs and activities where there is an obvious risk to vulnerable people (e.g Social Care and NHS work).

This already happens for Surgeons who need to be vaccinated against diseases like Hepatitis to practice.

Most professionals would happily take all reasonable precautions before flying a plane, driving a train, performing an operation etc and consider protecting others to be a core part of their job...rather than exercising their personal choice and turning up drunk.

 

People like my friend have had their Chemotherapy disrupted because selfish people exercising their "personal rights" have  clogged up hospitals due to not taking a safe vaccine that would help themselves and others if they caught COVID.

Obviously for some selfish people there seems to be no such thing as society in their minds...only their own desires are important.

 

As for kids...I am legally responsible for them until they reach the age of majority and therefore had no real problem giving consent.

I cannot understand why.

Let's remember the facts shall we ?

 

1 - Vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death.

2 - Vaccines are not that effective at preventing infection. Different sources claim different levels of preventing infection, but none claim a high figure. And we all know loads of people who have caught Covid yet have been vaccinated, I certainly do.

 

So, bearing the above in mind I have been vaccinated because I am in my mid 50s, but I would never criticise anyone else for not getting vaccinated. Even ignoring arguments about personal freedom, the facts dictate that there is little to be gained from forcing people to be vaccinated, particularly in this country where a high proportion of older people have been vaccinated, and it is only them that matter. Younger people are not in significant danger from Covid, in fact healthy people under 18 are at significantly more risk of death from falling down the stairs than from Covid. There is next to no point in vaccinating them.

[RollingJ 2,030]

5 minutes ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

This is all getting a bit confusing now, Mr Rolling!

Was that a rhetorical question, or a theoretical question?

Dunn the answer to your question, Mr Bloke, but I'm sure the other respondent will clear it up for you.

[Carbuncle 0]

8 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

I cannot understand why.

Let's remember the facts shall we ?

 

1 - Vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death.

2 - Vaccines are not that effective at preventing infection. Different sources claim different levels of preventing infection, but none claim a high figure. And we all know loads of people who have caught Covid yet have been vaccinated, I certainly do.

 

So, bearing the above in mind I have been vaccinated because I am in my mid 50s, but I would never criticise anyone else for not getting vaccinated. Even ignoring arguments about personal freedom, the facts dictate that there is little to be gained from forcing people to be vaccinated, particularly in this country where a high proportion of older people have been vaccinated, and it is only them that matter. Younger people are not in significant danger from Covid, in fact healthy people under 18 are at significantly more risk of death from falling down the stairs than from Covid. There is next to no point in vaccinating them.

No, this is rubbish. You may not believe in herd immunity but it does bear on matters. You may believe as a certainty that we will all get it eventually and reason that it therefore makes no difference whether we get it now or later but in fact it does matter. I gave you reasons why and @L00b corrected my omission of the fact that the NHS would much rather cope with the burden spread over a period than in large lumps.

[The_DADDY 3,468]

I hear the corrupt W. H. O are urging Governments to "have a conversation about mandatory jabs" 

Yeah, OK. 

Still not having it. They can threaten all they like my family and I will NOT take part in this charade. 

[Chekhov 488]

17 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

No, this is rubbish. You may not believe in herd immunity but it does bear on matters. You may believe as a certainty that we will all get it eventually and reason that it therefore makes no difference whether we get it now or later but in fact it does matter. I gave you reasons why and @L00b corrected my omission of the fact that the NHS would much rather cope with the burden spread over a period than in large lumps.

It is not rubbish. If  herd immunity is unachievable and we are all going to get Covid sooner or later anyway (apart from those who just don't seem susceptible to it) it completely alters the case for suppression. That is obvious surely? And any suppression has  a cost somewhere along the line, either social or financial, so we need a soddin' cast iron case for it (or vaccine passports), which we definitely do not have now.

There is no rational argument for Covid vaccine passports, particularly in this country which already has one of the highest vaccination rates amongst older / vulnerable groups in the world. Vaccine passports are purely a confidence building measure to pander to ignorance and fear (and I am vaccinated).

Edited November 26, 2021 by Chekhov

[HeHasRisen 3,397]

15 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

I hear the corrupt W. H. O are urging Governments to "have a conversation about mandatory jabs" 

Yeah, OK. 

Still not having it. They can threaten all they like my family and I will NOT take part in this charade. 

Theoretical question for you, dont take this the wrong way.

 

If someone you lived with "broke rank" and went and had the jab, would you disown them?

[zach 234]

16 hours ago, The_DADDY said:

I hear the corrupt W. H. O are urging Governments to "have a conversation about mandatory jabs" 

Yeah, OK. 

Still not having it. They can threaten all they like my family and I will NOT take part in this charade. 

Corrupt W.H.O? 

 

Did all your family decide, or did The_DADDY do a bit of dicatating, or maybe pushed his opinions on the other members of The_DADDY house?

 

It's your choice, I have no problem respecting that. I am curious where you got information that made you so against the jabs being an option.

[Carbuncle 0]

7 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

If  herd immunity is unachievable and we are all going to get Covid sooner or later anyway (apart from those who just don't seem susceptible to it) it completely alters the case for suppression. That is obvious surely?

You are insisting that I follow your definition of 'herd immunity' when I have already explained that I mean something slightly different.

 

(1) More immunity in a population retards the spread of covid versus less immunity other things being equal. Any immunity retards the spread versus no immunity. Could you please acknowledge this?

 

(2) There is a threshold above which the level of immunity in a population causes an epidemic (under a specified, fixed set of conditions) to dwindle rather than increase in size.

 

Both (1) and (2) are interesting ideas which deserve names. I would tend to call (1) 'herd immunity' and (2) 'the herd immunity threshold'. You obviously feel that it is (2) that deserves the name 'herd immunity'. I can't tell from your posts whether you are even aware of (1) as a phenomenon. That is a bit frustrating to me as it's fundamental to my arguments.

[The_DADDY 3,468]

1 hour ago, HeHasRisen said:

Theoretical question for you, dont take this the wrong way.

 

If someone you lived with "broke rank" and went and had the jab, would you disown them?

No I wouldn't. I'd think they were stupid but I wouldn't disown them. 

[The_DADDY 3,468]

1 hour ago, zach said:

 

Did all your family decide, or did The_DADDY do a bit of dicatating, or maybe pushed his opinions on the other members of The_DADDY house?

I guess youll never know. 

[zach 234]

Just now, The_DADDY said:

I guess youll never know. 

Your reply says a lot (IMO)