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Clapped Out: Is The Nhs Broken?

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15 minutes ago, top4718 said:

It absolutely doesn't, more funding will just go into the huge blackhole that already exists, its shambolic, the Germans operate a semi private system which is superb, the clapped out NHS is a spent force. A good service doesn't have an outstanding compensation bill of £83billion pounds.

 

Why is acceptable that large organisations are wasteful, it certainly shouldn't be.

It isn't a "bill", it's claims.

 

https://resolution.nhs.uk/foi-disclosure-log/outstanding-compensation-claims-at-83bn/

 

Compensation payments for 2019/20 were £2.3 billion.

 

https://www.clarkewillmott.com/blog/why-did-the-total-value-of-nhs-clinical-negligence-claims-fall-in-2019-2020/

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1 minute ago, Longcol said:

So claims would point to incidences where the claimant thought it was justified and either way £2.3 billion is still a huge number, its a dreadful service.

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There are too many pen pushers in the NHS and not enough “ hands on” . When I qualified as a State Registered Nurse I still had to clean the toilets out if there was a staff shortage.  Would the qualified nurses do it today ? No way ! You cannot get them to leave the “ Nurses Station” even to attend to patients.! 

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14 minutes ago, top4718 said:

So claims would point to incidences where the claimant thought it was justified and either way £2.3 billion is still a huge number, its a dreadful service.

It's certainly under resourced compared to most of western europe as I've previously pointed out.

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/477462-clapped-out-is-the-nhs-broken/?tab=comments#comment-8461880

 

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20 minutes ago, top4718 said:

So claims would point to incidences where the claimant thought it was justified and either way £2.3 billion is still a huge number, its a dreadful service.

So, what do you suggest as an alternative?

 

No moaning. No ill informed criticism.  Just some positive stuff.

 

It would be interesting to hear from a man who derives his income from massively wasteful private companies that suck remorselessly on the public sector teat.

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Northern general has 1,100 beds and 6,000+ staff. I've spent a fair bit of time in the last 3 years as both an in-patient and visitor. Some of my observations have been quite alarming. Most of the hands on work seems to be done by care workers.

 

The nurses seem to spend most of their time on computers entering data. The data seems to be all important to the detriment of everything else.  Meanwhile the basics of good nursing, such as good nutrition, general comfort (bed sores are surprisingly common,) keeping patients mentally positive and engaged, are all woefully  neglected.

 

To do obbs takes two staff, one, usually a care worker, takes the measurements and writes them down on any old scrap of paper, then calls them out to a nurse who enters them onto the computer. Seems to be a complicated way of doing it. These computers are laptops on mobile trolleys so the nurses can walk round with them, but most nurses seem to spend endless amounts of time at the nurses base catching up with data input. 

 

On the ward I was in, the night time drug round took well over an hour, sometimes two, except for the night when the computers broke down. Then it was completed in less than 30 minutes. Waiting for computers to 'scroll down' or 'refresh' takes forever. A lot of them seem old and faulty.

 

The patients' notes, which are copious, rarely seem to be read, and lead to endless repetitions of questions, and mistakes being made because salient facts are lost in the sheer density of the information.

 

A lot of problems seem to be the result of trying to rectify previous mistakes, but the legislation put in place simply overcomplicates even the simplest procedures. Nurses seem to have lost all automony. They are being strangled by protocols and red tape. 

 

Too many specialisations, and not enough all rounders. In spite of all the hard data, communication between different departments is poor. The human being is more than the sum of its parts, yet rarely seems to be regarded holistically by the medical profession.

 

12 hour shifts? I can see the advantages for continuity of care, but I couldn't do it.

And there's no point in having a 'named nurse' when they're going to be off for 3 days at a time.

 

Everything takes forever. A simple change in medication can take 48 hours waiting for doctors to sign it off.

 

Hospitals become ghost towns at the weekend. Everything seems to grind to a halt. Considering the backlog, shouldn't hospitals be running 24/7?   

 

I'd be interested in any nurses' response to my observations. I'm sure they have their own point of view. 

Edited by Anna B

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4 hours ago, Anna B said:

Northern general has 1,100 beds and 6,000+ staff. I've spent a fair bit of time in the last 3 years as both an in-patient and visitor. Some of my observations have been quite alarming. Most of the hands on work seems to be done by care workers.

 

The nurses seem to spend most of their time on computers entering data. The data seems to be all important to the detriment of everything else.  Meanwhile the basics of good nursing, such as good nutrition, general comfort (bed sores are surprisingly common,) keeping patients mentally positive and engaged, are all woefully  neglected.

 

To do obbs takes two staff, one, usually a care worker, takes the measurements and writes them down on any old scrap of paper, then calls them out to a nurse who enters them onto the computer. Seems to be a complicated way of doing it. These computers are laptops on mobile trolleys so the nurses can walk round with them, but most nurses seem to spend endless amounts of time at the nurses base catching up with data input. 

 

On the ward I was in, the night time drug round took well over an hour, sometimes two, except for the night when the computers broke down. Then it was completed in less than 30 minutes. Waiting for computers to 'scroll down' or 'refresh' takes forever. A lot of them seem old and faulty.

 

The patients' notes, which are copious, rarely seem to be read, and lead to endless repetitions of questions, and mistakes being made because salient facts are lost in the sheer density of the information.

 

A lot of problems seem to be the result of trying to rectify previous mistakes, but the legislation put in place simply overcomplicates even the simplest procedures. Nurses seem to have lost all automony. They are being strangled by protocols and red tape. 

 

Too many specialisations, and not enough all rounders. In spite of all the hard data, communication between different departments is poor. The human being is more than the sum of its parts, yet rarely seems to be regarded holistically by the medical profession.

 

12 hour shifts? I can see the advantages for continuity of care, but I couldn't do it.

And there's no point in having a 'named nurse' when they're going to be off for 3 days at a time.

 

Everything takes forever. A simple change in medication can take 48 hours waiting for doctors to sign it off.

 

Hospitals become ghost towns at the weekend. Everything seems to grind to a halt. Considering the backlog, shouldn't hospitals be running 24/7?   

 

I'd be interested in any nurses' response to my observations. I'm sure they have their own point of view. 

Your observations are fair.  The staff behind the counters especially the Doctors also spend a lot of time looking at their personal mobile phone screens.

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Don`t you think it is about time people started talking about the positive things that are done in hospitals instead of slagging them off all the time. Like saving lives. All my trips to the hospitals have been very professional and with no complaints. People just love to critisise today. If you are not satisfied try paying for your treatment privately.

Edited by Kidorry

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9 hours ago, sibon said:

So, what do you suggest as an alternative?

 

No moaning. No ill informed criticism.  Just some positive stuff.

 

It would be interesting to hear from a man who derives his income from massively wasteful private companies that suck remorselessly on the public sector teat.

"No ill informed criticism" then you follow it with that last line 🤣.

 

A bitter old man.

Edited by top4718

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33 minutes ago, Kidorry said:

Don`t you think it is about time people started talking about the positive things that are done in hospitals instead of slagging them off all the time. Like saving lives. All my trips to the hospitals have been very professional and with no complaints. People just love to critisise today. If you are not satisfied try paying for your treatment privately.

Discussions about changes to the NHS seem to fall into two camps:

 

  1. We keep the  creaking, wasteful and failing service we have now (our record on Covid has been very poor)

 

Or

 

  1. We adopt the US system which is prohibitively expensive for the majority

 

It doesn’t have to be this way, the US spends more on medical research and development than any other country in the world hence the high costs, there are far, far better systems than the NHS in European countries (Germany, Italy for example), Germany has a semi private health service that’s streets ahead of the NHS.

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1 hour ago, Kidorry said:

Don`t you think it is about time people started talking about the positive things that are done in hospitals instead of slagging them off all the time. Like saving lives. All my trips to the hospitals have been very professional and with no complaints. People just love to critisise today. If you are not satisfied try paying for your treatment privately.

I don't think anyone is denying the NHS does some excellent work, but the 'our NHS is wonderful' mantra stops legitimate criticism in its tracks and isn't always true. There is plenty of room for improvement. This thread is about that aspect. Comparisons with other EU countries show there are better ways of doing things and still have it 'free at the point of use.' When almost half the money in the NHS goes towards compensating and correcting some fairly outrageous, life altering mistakes something needs to be done. 

1 hour ago, top4718 said:

Discussions about changes to the NHS seem to fall into two camps:

 

  1. We keep the  creaking, wasteful and failing service we have now (our record on Covid has been very poor)

 

Or

 

  1. We adopt the US system which is prohibitively expensive for the majority

 

It doesn’t have to be this way, the US spends more on medical research and development than any other country in the world hence the high costs, there are far, far better systems than the NHS in European countries (Germany, Italy for example), Germany has a semi private health service that’s streets ahead of the NHS.

The US system is awful. Why do we always have to follow their lead? There are much better systems closer to home.

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2 hours ago, top4718 said:

"No ill informed criticism" then you follow it with that last line 🤣.

 

 

It’s the truth.

 

Like it or not.

Edited by sibon

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