University Lecturers Union Threatening Strikes

[alchemist 35]

2 hours ago, nightrider said:

Teaching students is but one part of a lecturers job. Without students there would be fewer lecturers, but they would still be employed for their other tasks such as research.

Without students it would not be a teaching establishment and would therefore cease to exist.  If the "lecturers" stopped lecturing then they would not be lecturers but researchers and would be working in a research establishment paid for by research funding.  If they dont want to teach then surely they should leave the universities?

[geared 300]

Pay at Universities is pretty poor, especially considering the level of training required to get many of the posts.

 

Many jobs involved with research are fixed length funding, which can be as little as 6 months at a time.  So there's always that thought you might be out on your arse in a few months.

[harvey19 541]

12 minutes ago, geared said:

Pay at Universities is pretty poor, especially considering the level of training required to get many of the posts.

 

Many jobs involved with research are fixed length funding, which can be as little as 6 months at a time.  So there's always that thought you might be out on your arse in a few months.

Could you enlighten us on salaries and pensions for lecturers please ?

Edited October 20, 2021 by harvey19

[sheffbag 224]

2 hours ago, dan_999uk said:

So because you're happy to get shafted by people profiting off your acquiescence, you think everyone should?

Not really sure what that has to do with the discussion but ill bite.

 

Who profits from my below interest wage rise? Certainly not the owners of the company, but the people that are still employed (including myself) due to all the workforce accepting the pay rise or face job cuts are certainly appreciative.

 

The discussion is about universities. What profits do they make?

 

Very selective quoting from my post, especially since i was repsonding to another posters comment with that part of my reply.

Do i take it that you think the actions of the union are justified and are willing to offer your thoughts on the rest of my post 

[alchemist 35]

6 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Using the unions argument of real time losses against inflation then yes i have had a cut for the last 5 years due to either pay freezes or below inflation pay rises already. Am i happy? no, but i understand that their is a finite pot of money that we have to work with and in order for everyone to keep their jobs then things had to be implemented. Unions dont.

 

My pension has suffered a lot over the last couple of years, mainly because of the pandemic but i sure as hell dont have an "annual guaranteed pension and guaranteed lump sum." which the union is complaining about.

 

They say that members will be third worse off and also state they will be £240K worse off. So does this mean members have a pension pot of £720K each they are sitting on? There is no evidence to show where the £240K that members would lose from their pensions is coming from. If thats based on even having 40 years of pension payments (given early retirement at 50 and living till 90) then that would equate to £120 a week lost. Are the unions really saying that as part of their argument? The state of a lot of private pensions im sure the majority of people arent even going to get that amount paid to them, never mind lost.

Doing some research it would appear that

the lump sum you receive is 3 TIMES of your annual pension  value (page 17). So if your pension is £25K a year you receive £75K just for retiring

You pay 9.8% of your wages, The university contributes 21.4 of your salary value. 21.4%! . ~Even the Local Government Pension Scheme doesnt contribute that

https://www.uss.co.uk/-/media/project/ussmainsite/files/for-members/guides/your-guide-to-universities-superannuation-scheme.pdf?rev=9a73e0d59a9148919029f9865036abfd&hash=1F0660EC9E380E2F81C133C3B9260AFE

 

UCU is demanding a £2.5k pay increase; an end to race, gender and disability pay injustice; a framework to eliminate zero-hours and other precarious contracts; and meaningful action to tackle unmanageable workloads.

 

Are those demands reasonable? If we all went to our bosses and demanded a £2500 pay increase for everyone then based on the average wage this would represent a 10% increase. Given that UCU as around 120000 members then they are asking universities to pay £300Million pounds out in additional wages. Is that reasonable?

 

I never get this pay injustice scenario. In modern britian you cannot discriminate on a vacancy or gender, race, religion or anything and you cannot pay differently. To do so is illegal. Show me an instance where a university lecturer who is doing the same job as another lecturer and is on the same pay scale is getting paid less because of their gender or race? Or is the union demanding that jobs such as support staff where there are more females working should be paid the same as lecturers to bring the parity into line? Its just statistics that are manipulated to suit an argument

 

for instance, i work in a company that has a cleaner, the cleaner is a white elderly male who does it as a little job to top up his pension and used to work at the company in a different role. The senior manager within my company is a female of british carribean origin. Their wages are vastly different but i could present it as a gender and race pay gap using statistics. The fact is though, they do different jobs with different salaries attached to it. But i digress

 

Students have had an awful time of it. When this news broke i got a call from my daughter who was absolutely distraught as her Uni is one of the ones threatening action. She has had to finish her degree under incredibly hard circumstances (still paying the fees to do so despite no access to the university and limited online access to lecturers) and is trying to focus on her masters now but is worried that the same will be happening again.

 

So

Do you think they are justified in their argument?

Do you think that 21.4% is a fair amount for an employer to pay into a pension fund given the contribution levels of other company or local government schemes?

Do you think that an extra £300 Million should be paid out by universities? If so then who pays for it......Would that be students in higher fees or the public in taxes

 

Do you think we should all go to our bosses and request a £2.5K rise or threaten to go on strike?

Do you think they are justified in timing it straight after students have been denied adequate access to tutors for over a year. 

Do you think students have had enough mental stress trying to work on a degree or masters with no support already or should the unions just pile more pressure on them with their greed and unreasonable demands?

 

The usual tactics for a university faced with budgetary problems (in this case paying over the odds to lecturers) is to cut back on support staff.  So whilst a limited number of staff with an over inflated sense of their own self importance get a pay increase others loose their jobs and then the lecturers complain that they are then expected to increase their admin workload to cover those cutbacks then want more money to do this etc

[Bargepole23 337]

3 hours ago, harvey19 said:

Could you enlighten us on salaries and pensions for lecturers please ?

Lecturer salaries at University of Sheffield are £42 to £50k, so not exceptional by any stretch for the level of knowledge/experience and skill set required. Dunno about pensions.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Bargepole23

[harvey19 541]

23 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Lecturer salaries at University of Sheffield are £42 to £50k, so not exceptional by any stretch for the level of knowledge/experience and skill set required. Dunno about pensions.

 

 

Is that the starting salaries and are there other additional payments and benefits ?

[geared 300]

34 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Is that the starting salaries and are there other additional payments and benefits ?

 

No additional pay or benefits, but you get on the eduroam wifi system and there's the cycle to work scheme?

Usual requirements are PhD and a good number of years experience.

 

In balance the starting salary for a store manager at Aldi is £47k, no PhD needed.

[harvey19 541]

29 minutes ago, geared said:

 

No additional pay or benefits, but you get on the eduroam wifi system and there's the cycle to work scheme?

Usual requirements are PhD and a good number of years experience.

 

In balance the starting salary for a store manager at Aldi is £47k, no PhD needed.

After looking up salaries I admit it is the posts of assistant professor and professor when the large salaries are paid.

Edited October 20, 2021 by harvey19

[altus 533]

8 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Do you think that 21.4% is a fair amount for an employer to pay into a pension fund given the contribution levels of other company or local government schemes?

That depends on why they are paying that much. If the pension fund has a shortfall as a result of the employer taking a payment holiday in the past then it absolutely might be appropriate for an employer to pay that much to make up for their previously missed payments.

[sheffbag 224]

5 hours ago, altus said:

That depends on why they are paying that much. If the pension fund has a shortfall as a result of the employer taking a payment holiday in the past then it absolutely might be appropriate for an employer to pay that much to make up for their previously missed payments.

We are talking about universities here. They are the ones paying 21.4% . Are you suggesting they took a payment holiday?

[nightrider 13]

15 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Lecturer salaries at University of Sheffield are £42 to £50k, so not exceptional by any stretch for the level of knowledge/experience and skill set required. Dunno about pensions.

 

 

In many subjects this is far less than what would be earned in the private sector (even when you account for the pension contributions). Indeed one professor I know took a very significant pay cut to bring his expertise to the university - something he did because he had already earn't insane money in the private sector. I know others who leave and make far, far more money doing things like investment banking etc.

 

Different story for e.g a poetry professor of course.