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University Lecturers Union Threatening Strikes

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As if it wasn't bad enough that uni students have had over a year of no teaching face to face and essentially had to complete their degrees with no interaction the lecturers union now want to hold a strike !

https://www.ucu.org.uk/article/11820/Strike-ballots-open-at-UK-universities?list=11204

 

As a parent of a masters student whose Uni will be affected by this and who had to finish her degree with virtually no input i find it irresponsible and just another example of the "unions" not giving a flying about the people they are meant to be educating

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27 minutes ago, sheffbag said:

As if it wasn't bad enough that uni students have had over a year of no teaching face to face and essentially had to complete their degrees with no interaction the lecturers union now want to hold a strike !

https://www.ucu.org.uk/article/11820/Strike-ballots-open-at-UK-universities?list=11204

 

As a parent of a masters student whose Uni will be affected by this and who had to finish her degree with virtually no input i find it irresponsible and just another example of the "unions" not giving a flying about the people they are meant to be educating

So by this post you would be happy to accept a cut to your pay and pension?

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How about deciding which degree courses can be eliminated and which courses can be taught in shorter periods thereby reducing the number of lecturers and so spread the available money around.

I find the union's position is not taking into consideration the student's education especially after the lack of traditional teaching they have had to endure. 

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26 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

How about deciding which degree courses can be eliminated and which courses can be taught in shorter periods thereby reducing the number of lecturers and so spread the available money around.

I find the union's position is not taking into consideration the student's education especially after the lack of traditional teaching they have had to endure. 

Your solution to the unions "not taking into consideration the student's education" is to cut some courses and reduce the amount of teaching in others? :loopy:

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11 hours ago, altus said:

Your solution to the unions "not taking into consideration the student's education" is to cut some courses and reduce the amount of teaching in others? :loopy:

My solution is to reassess which courses are of value and which have grown over the years and now need to be evaluated as to their value to the future of a student and country.

Universities should also investigate which courses could be completed in shorter periods of time.

I would go further and charge students no fees to study subjects which lead to careers where there is a skills gap in the country.

Because of the skills gap in the country maybe some money should be redirected from universities to pay for apprentice courses in the building, engineering or other trades.

To put this debate into context what are the present salaries and pensions of university lecturers ?

 

 

 

Edited by harvey19

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1 hour ago, harvey19 said:

My solution is to reassess which courses are of value and which have grown over the years and now need to be evaluated as to their value to the future of a student and country.

Universities should also investigate which courses could be completed in shorter periods of time.

I would go further and charge students no fees to study subjects which lead to careers where there is a skills gap in the country.

Because of the skills gap in the country maybe some money should be redirected from universities to pay for apprentice courses in the building, engineering or other trades.

To put this debate into context what are the present salaries and pensions of university lecturers ?

 

 

 

Hmmm... :huh:


That's far too sensible an idea Mr Harvey, but...

 

... you need to remember that universities are funded by the number of students they have.

 

They're hardly likely to voluntarily reduce those numbers and tailor their courses 'for the good of the country', when they can charge students extortionate amounts to get a qualification that's suited to flipping a few burgers... :(

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2 hours ago, harvey19 said:

My solution is to reassess which courses are of value and which have grown over the years and now need to be evaluated as to their value to the future of a student and country.

Universities should also investigate which courses could be completed in shorter periods of time.

I would go further and charge students no fees to study subjects which lead to careers where there is a skills gap in the country.

Because of the skills gap in the country maybe some money should be redirected from universities to pay for apprentice courses in the building, engineering or other trades.

To put this debate into context what are the present salaries and pensions of university lecturers ?

 

 

 

There is much wrong with the system and I agree that your suggestions have a lot of merit.

 

However that will not address the fundamental issue of pay and pensions. University pensions are good and it is little surprise that the union and staff would wish to retain them BUT the problem is that they are very expensive and there is not a money tree out there and the current scheme is not sustainable. Personally (were I still working) I would favour paying more in to my pension to support my retirement but of course the Unions will take the view that others should fund the shortfall

 

I wonder what the pay and pension arrangements are for these Union leaders

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19 hours ago, HeHasRisen said:

So by this post you would be happy to accept a cut to your pay and pension?

Using the unions argument of real time losses against inflation then yes i have had a cut for the last 5 years due to either pay freezes or below inflation pay rises already. Am i happy? no, but i understand that their is a finite pot of money that we have to work with and in order for everyone to keep their jobs then things had to be implemented. Unions dont.

 

My pension has suffered a lot over the last couple of years, mainly because of the pandemic but i sure as hell dont have an "annual guaranteed pension and guaranteed lump sum." which the union is complaining about.

 

They say that members will be third worse off and also state they will be £240K worse off. So does this mean members have a pension pot of £720K each they are sitting on? There is no evidence to show where the £240K that members would lose from their pensions is coming from. If thats based on even having 40 years of pension payments (given early retirement at 50 and living till 90) then that would equate to £120 a week lost. Are the unions really saying that as part of their argument? The state of a lot of private pensions im sure the majority of people arent even going to get that amount paid to them, never mind lost.

Doing some research it would appear that

the lump sum you receive is 3 TIMES of your annual pension  value (page 17). So if your pension is £25K a year you receive £75K just for retiring

You pay 9.8% of your wages, The university contributes 21.4 of your salary value. 21.4%! . ~Even the Local Government Pension Scheme doesnt contribute that

https://www.uss.co.uk/-/media/project/ussmainsite/files/for-members/guides/your-guide-to-universities-superannuation-scheme.pdf?rev=9a73e0d59a9148919029f9865036abfd&hash=1F0660EC9E380E2F81C133C3B9260AFE

 

UCU is demanding a £2.5k pay increase; an end to race, gender and disability pay injustice; a framework to eliminate zero-hours and other precarious contracts; and meaningful action to tackle unmanageable workloads.

 

Are those demands reasonable? If we all went to our bosses and demanded a £2500 pay increase for everyone then based on the average wage this would represent a 10% increase. Given that UCU as around 120000 members then they are asking universities to pay £300Million pounds out in additional wages. Is that reasonable?

 

I never get this pay injustice scenario. In modern britian you cannot discriminate on a vacancy or gender, race, religion or anything and you cannot pay differently. To do so is illegal. Show me an instance where a university lecturer who is doing the same job as another lecturer and is on the same pay scale is getting paid less because of their gender or race? Or is the union demanding that jobs such as support staff where there are more females working should be paid the same as lecturers to bring the parity into line? Its just statistics that are manipulated to suit an argument

 

for instance, i work in a company that has a cleaner, the cleaner is a white elderly male who does it as a little job to top up his pension and used to work at the company in a different role. The senior manager within my company is a female of british carribean origin. Their wages are vastly different but i could present it as a gender and race pay gap using statistics. The fact is though, they do different jobs with different salaries attached to it. But i digress

 

Students have had an awful time of it. When this news broke i got a call from my daughter who was absolutely distraught as her Uni is one of the ones threatening action. She has had to finish her degree under incredibly hard circumstances (still paying the fees to do so despite no access to the university and limited online access to lecturers) and is trying to focus on her masters now but is worried that the same will be happening again.

 

So

Do you think they are justified in their argument?

Do you think that 21.4% is a fair amount for an employer to pay into a pension fund given the contribution levels of other company or local government schemes?

Do you think that an extra £300 Million should be paid out by universities? If so then who pays for it......Would that be students in higher fees or the public in taxes

 

Do you think we should all go to our bosses and request a £2.5K rise or threaten to go on strike?

Do you think they are justified in timing it straight after students have been denied adequate access to tutors for over a year. 

Do you think students have had enough mental stress trying to work on a degree or masters with no support already or should the unions just pile more pressure on them with their greed and unreasonable demands?

 

Edited by sheffbag

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Maybe the first step should be scrutinising the union ref. salary and pension adjustments, work force injustices and ratios, and their moral responsibilities to the students.

Without students there would be no lecturers.

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14 minutes ago, harvey19 said:

Maybe the first step should be scrutinising the union ref. salary and pension adjustments, work force injustices and ratios, and their moral responsibilities to the students.

Without students there would be no lecturers.

Teaching students is but one part of a lecturers job. Without students there would be fewer lecturers, but they would still be employed for their other tasks such as research.

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Quote

Using the unions argument of real time losses against inflation then yes i have had a cut for the last 5 years due to either pay freezes or below inflation pay rises already. Am i happy? no, but i understand that their is a finite pot of money that we have to work with and in order for everyone to keep their jobs then things had to be implemented. Unions dont.

So because you're happy to get shafted by people profiting off your acquiescence, you think everyone should?

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21 minutes ago, dan_999uk said:

So because you're happy to get shafted by people profiting off your acquiescence, you think everyone should?

Maybe those at the top should set an example and think of their students.

I  haven't seen the salary scale for lecturers and their pensions, maybe you could enlighten us.

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