International Day For The Eradication Of Poverty

[Carbuncle 0]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

According to 'Sunday Morning Live' (BBC1 ) 20 - 25% of people in the UK are living in poverty.

Relative poverty - presumably, the figure of 20-25% refers to something of this kind - tends to stress the importance of inequality even to the extent that society can have everybody become better off yet relative poverty go up. In a world where everybody has plenty how terrible would inequality of wealth really be?

 

Absolute poverty and variants of this deprivation are a disgrace in a rich country like Britain. I would suggest we ought to be able to provide everybody, or nearly everybody, with a decent material standard of living and a good standard of assistance with life's non-material hardships such as ill health.

 

@Anna B, do you have any data on absolute poverty, etcetra you could share rather than relative poverty.

[El Cid 216]

12 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

Relative poverty - presumably, the figure of 20-25% refers to something of this kind - tends to stress the importance of inequality even to the extent that society can have everybody become better off yet relative poverty go up. In a world where everybody has plenty how terrible would inequality of wealth really be?

 

Absolute poverty and variants of this deprivation are a disgrace in a rich country like Britain. I would suggest we ought to be able to provide everybody, or nearly everybody, with a decent material standard of living and a good standard of assistance with life's non-material hardships such as ill healt.

Things which make people turn to food banks is our poorly performing benefits system which does not deal with change well.

Getting put on UC did once mean a six week wait for benefits. This was perposly set up this way, which shows how those in charge think.

Many people have personallity flaws, drugs, alcohol, food, addiction; should the state give them more money because of this?

 

[Carbuncle 0]

17 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Many people have personallity flaws, drugs, alcohol, food, addiction; should the state give them more money because of this?

I am interested in the idea of the state providing a universal basic income because it could address people's basic material needs while eliminating the humiliating indignity of means testing in many, perhaps most, cases of deprivation. In general, I dislike the collective ruminations over whether such-and-such a group are deserving of support and whether those who are supported are making good life choices. A universal basic income would be indifferent to whether somebody has personality flaws or addictions.

 

Specific problems such as addiction do require specific help be provided.

[HumbleNarrator 286]

Eradicating poverty is predicated on the notion that a state/government is directly responsible for the outcomes in peoples lives, which is the socialists/communists wet dream.  

 

In the real world, the government sets a basic framework for stability and then we all, notwithstanding all the obvious caveats, as individuals take personal responsibility for our own lives. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by HumbleNarrator

[El Cid 216]

3 hours ago, Carbuncle said:

I am interested in the idea of the state providing a universal basic income because it could address people's basic material needs while eliminating the humiliating indignity of means testing in many, perhaps most, cases of deprivation. In general, I dislike the collective ruminations over whether such-and-such a group are deserving of support and whether those who are supported are making good life choices. A universal basic income would be indifferent to whether somebody has personality flaws or addictions.

I higher minimum wage would dispell the need for some benefits, but other salaries would just increase, making the higher minimum wage the new poverty. There will always be this relative poverty.

But giving people money without working, needs a ethic that people should work.

[Guest sibon]

8 hours ago, HumbleNarrator said:

Eradicating poverty is predicated on the notion that a state/government is directly responsible for the outcomes in peoples lives, which is the socialists/communists wet dream.  

 

In the real world, the government sets a basic framework for stability and then we all, notwithstanding all the obvious caveats, as individuals take personal responsibility for our own lives. 

There are a great many wealthy owners of companies who are reliant upon the government for their wealth.

 

They do it by underpaying their workers, who then claim benefits. Then they trouser obscene amounts of subsequent profits.

 

All at the taxpayer’s expense 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by sibon

[Anna B 1,412]

There is enough food, power and resources in the world to keep everyone happy. 

It's the distribution that's wrong. 

Read 'Fully automated Luxury Communism.' by Aaron Bastani.

Very positive, interesting and enlightening.

[cuttsie 1,090]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

There is enough food, power and resources in the world to keep everyone happy. 

It's the distribution that's wrong. 

Read 'Fully automated Luxury Communism.' by Aaron Bastani.

Very positive, interesting and enlightening.

Very enlightening it is Anna , but it will never work , Greed always takes over .

[Anna B 1,412]

1 hour ago, cuttsie said:

Very enlightening it is Anna , but it will never work , Greed always takes over .

True, but surely something can be done about greed with legislation. A decent tax system is a great way of redistributing money and forming a more equitable society as they have done in some Scandinavian countries.

Of course if a government see greed as an acceptable way of life you're done for, unless you change the government....

[El Cid 216]

8 hours ago, Anna B said:

There is enough food, power and resources in the world to keep everyone happy. 

It's the distribution that's wrong. 

Read 'Fully automated Luxury Communism.' by Aaron Bastani.

Very positive, interesting and enlightening.

Perhaps give the poor access to free food from any supermarket, but in reallity people have enough food, its other things that should be prioritised.

Housing must surely be the poors biggest issue.

[trastrick 866]

On 17/10/2021 at 06:17, Anna B said:

Today is International day for the Eradication of poverty apparently.

According to 'Sunday Morning Live' (BBC1 ) 20 - 25% of people in the UK are living in poverty. This group includes people in full time work, people out of work, people in debt, those  with disabilities, the carers of others,  and those no longer 'just about managing.' More and more people are going to get sucked into this group.

 

Rents and bills are rising, food prices are going up, inflation is taking off, homelessness is set to rise massively with the withdrawal of £20 Universal Credit, fuel poverty is going to be a big problem this winter with many people having to choose between heating and eating etc.

We are supposed to be a rich country. I think this is unacceptable and something must be done. But what?

 

Your views? 

The welfare state is not working?

 

Who would have thunk it?

 

And no, it is NOT a "rich country".

 

Unsustainable spiraling National Debt is being shoved on to the shoulders of generations yet unborn, who have no representation or control of how their tax money is being spent today.

 

All so that you can have yours, NOW!

 

Selfish, immoral and Unconstitutional, (taxation without representation). 

 

Pay as you go for what you demand! Make the politicians live within their means, like normal folks have to do!

 

Don't let politicians loot the Treasury and the future of your granchildren to bribe the electorate with "free" stuff.

 

[crazyhorse 37]

5 hours ago, Anna B said:

True, but surely something can be done about greed with legislation. A decent tax system is a great way of redistributing money and forming a more equitable society as they have done in some Scandinavian countries.

Of course if a government see greed as an acceptable way of life you're done for, unless you change the government....

Unfortunately I think greed is baked into human nature.

In my early years I was lucky to have spent some time in Norway and Sweden.

Once I flew to Stavanger before starting a train tour through Sweden and back to Norway.

My luggage was sent to Genoa (in Italy) for some reason, so I sat on a park bench outside Stavanger train station wondering what to do as night began to fall.

A rather drunken Norwegian couple discovered me and took me back to their extremely large house and put me up for the night.

During chit-chat I discovered  that they had an imported U.S. pickup truck, a speedboat and in addition to their lovely and well appointed house, a weekend hut in the country.

Due to the nature of the local industry (Oil) they simply had more money than they knew what to do with.

I suppose you could argue that they were quite greedy with the truck, the boat and the holiday cabin in the woods...but it certainly shows that greed to some extent or other is part of human nature...even in Socialist Utopias.

I myself was once greedy for the acquisition of bicycles...now as I get older I am greedy for the time to ride them.

As a positive counterweight to that "greedy" Norwegian family with a pickup, multiple houses and a speedboat...they did feed me some wonderful strawberry cake, gave me a free bed for the night and didn't want anything  in return (apart from my company) for their wonderful hospitality to a total stranger (although I left them a token amount under the pillow).

30 years later I understand that my fellow humans are painted in many shades of grey...not simply black or white.

 

You can't eradicate human greed...but you can appeal to people's better nature to mitigate it, or work with their innate greed to achieve more positive outcomes.