Pandora Papers ! .

[Carbuncle 0]

So @ECCOnoob, what do you think of:

 

1. everybody paying their fair share of tax;

2. political figures who having previously talked about fairer taxation who are then found to have engaged in tax avoidance;

3. the uncovering of astronomical sums in the control of  foreign leaders, who would seem to have no legitimate excuse for having such sums;

4. the fact that British overseas territories (ie where the UK government's writ still runs) facilitate the secrecy these leaders need to hide their possibly ill-gotten gains.

[ECCOnoob 1,044]

14 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

So @ECCOnoob, what do you think of:

 

1. everybody paying their fair share of tax;

2. political figures who having previously talked about fairer taxation who are then found to have engaged in tax avoidance;

3. the uncovering of astronomical sums in the control of  foreign leaders, who would seem to have no legitimate excuse for having such sums;

4. the fact that British overseas territories (ie where the UK government's writ still runs) facilitate the secrecy these leaders need to hide their possibly ill-gotten gains.

1. define what is fair?   I think fair is paying what the the law dictates you have two. Not a penny more.  Lower earners don't get morally blackmailed or shamed by the media into paying more than they hmrc says they have to. Why should just making lots of money change that position.

 

2. Political pressure, hysterical Media, maintaining Public Image by saying what the people want to hear rather than giving a reality check.

 

3 and 4.  Nothing at all since it's all speculation, uncorroborated assumptions and presently without any merit. I work in a world of facts. Come back to me when there are some actual charges and a genuine reliable case for prosecution and I might be interested.

Edited October 8, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[Box11 28]

15 hours ago, Anna B said:

The working class used to stick together and there was strength in that.

The Elite/Conservaties have done a fine job in destroying that mentality and setting people against each other. 

Divide and conquer.

Works every time. 

That’s exactly what the elites have done the deep division’s amongst the general public is massive especially in the way people think !!!!...

 

I know someone who does a lot of work (Professional Fixer of sorts) for a consortium of millionaires....

 

He states that one of them told him over a glass of very expensive whiskey in Scotland that....

 

“everyone wants money and that people don’t care where it comes from whether it’s putting your parents into a home so you can get your hands on their house or business or even stealing from family members and many other financial crimes !!!!....

 

I wonder who they learnt it from to be so deceitful,untrustworthy,scheming scumbags !!!!...

 

Oh yeah I know the elites !!!!....

 

 

[tinfoilhat 11]

11 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

1. define what is fair?   I think fair is paying what the the law dictates you have two. Not a penny more.  Lower earners don't get morally blackmailed or shamed by the media into paying more than they hmrc says they have to. Why should just making lots of money change that position.

 

2. Political pressure, hysterical Media, maintaining Public Image by saying what the people want to hear rather than giving a reality check.

 

3 and 4.  Nothing at all since it's all speculation, uncorroborated assumptions and presently without any merit. I work in a world of facts. Come back to me when there are some actual charges and a genuine reliable case for prosecution and I might be interested.

You don't think any of it is worth the relevant authorities investigating then?

[ECCOnoob 1,044]

31 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

You don't think any of it is worth the relevant authorities investigating then?

Yes of course the relevant authorities should be and do investigate. That's their job and remit.

 

However, the earlier poster was asking what I think about X and Y wild speculation and assumptions given without any sort of context, evidence or facts. Therefore, what I think is how the hell should I know nor why would I care.

 

Come back to me when there is some genuine meritorious grounds for a prosecution and sufficient evidence of broken laws and I may take an interest. Until such time it's nothing more than a load of what ifs, rumours, finger pointing and gossip which quite frankly derives mostly from jealousy driven venom against the the wealthy.

[tinfoilhat 11]

27 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yes of course the relevant authorities should be and do investigate. That's their job and remit.

 

However, the earlier poster was asking what I think about X and Y wild speculation and assumptions given without any sort of context, evidence or facts. Therefore, what I think is how the hell should I know nor why would I care.

 

Come back to me when there is some genuine meritorious grounds for a prosecution and sufficient evidence of broken laws and I may take an interest. Until such time it's nothing more than a load of what ifs, rumours, finger pointing and gossip which quite frankly derives mostly from jealousy driven venom against the the wealthy.

I can't do that because I'm not a policeman, lawyer or accountant with access to their accounts. Equally I couldn't say for certain a house down the road might have drug dealers in because of odd activity at odd hours.  I could raise my suspicions to the police. Should I expect them to act or should I wait until I see a big parcel marked "drugs" being delivered before giving them a ring?

 

But they might choose not to. It's not like the police let crimes- big and small -slide.

 

Edited October 9, 2021 by tinfoilhat

[Staunton 18]

Oooh, the facts are inconvenient, best for those within the neoliberal thought collective and their self-selecting cheerleaders to quietly ignore summaries that expose their project. They simply parrot what they want us to believe and hope that we fall for their deceit. They would like us to believe that tax abuse is quite natural (whilst making sure that the little people pay their tax, of course). The reality is that the process used by the wealthy and businesses is to capture government, then revise legislation in favour of wealth, which allows the claim that they are not breaking any laws.

 

A basic outline of neoliberal doctrine would highlight hostility to taxation, resentment at the very existence of a public sector - which they wish abolished (with any potentially profitable services being privatised), and deregulation (i.e. eliminating laws).

 

Well, here are each of these features manifest in ECCOnoob's claim that no laws are broken in tax abuse. George Osborne hollowed out HMRC (effective deregulation by sacking the regulators), from which there were thousands of redundancies (public sector cuts). Then private sector staff were seconded from the very City accountancy firms that have been and continue to game the tax system (privatisation). These personnel, remunerated by the taxpayer (that's us little people) then wrote tax law, complete with carefully crafted loopholes which, upon returning to their employers, they exploit (tax abuse).

Tory (i.e. neoliberal) policy was and remains cheating the system in the interests of wealth and privilege.

 

For more on this theme see:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/apr/26/accountancy-firms-knowledge-treasury-avoid-tax

[Tony 10]

Around 35% of people pay no income tax at all.

Around 1% of people pay 35% of all income tax.

 

Is that fair?

[ECCOnoob 1,044]

1 hour ago, Staunton said:

Oooh, the facts are inconvenient, best for those within the neoliberal thought collective and their self-selecting cheerleaders to quietly ignore summaries that expose their project. They simply parrot what they want us to believe and hope that we fall for their deceit. They would like us to believe that tax abuse is quite natural (whilst making sure that the little people pay their tax, of course). The reality is that the process used by the wealthy and businesses is to capture government, then revise legislation in favour of wealth, which allows the claim that they are not breaking any laws.

 

A basic outline of neoliberal doctrine would highlight hostility to taxation, resentment at the very existence of a public sector - which they wish abolished (with any potentially profitable services being privatised), and deregulation (i.e. eliminating laws).

 

Well, here are each of these features manifest in ECCOnoob's claim that no laws are broken in tax abuse. George Osborne hollowed out HMRC (effective deregulation by sacking the regulators), from which there were thousands of redundancies (public sector cuts). Then private sector staff were seconded from the very City accountancy firms that have been and continue to game the tax system (privatisation). These personnel, remunerated by the taxpayer (that's us little people) then wrote tax law, complete with carefully crafted loopholes which, upon returning to their employers, they exploit (tax abuse).

Tory (i.e. neoliberal) policy was and remains cheating the system in the interests of wealth and privilege.

 

For more on this theme see:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/apr/26/accountancy-firms-knowledge-treasury-avoid-

Nurse...  Nurse.... someone has allowed them internet access again.   Come quick get them another tin foil hat.

 

Christ if I had a pound for every time someone desperately brings up the word neoliberal to try to further their pointless argument I could have retired long ago.

Edited October 9, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[RollingJ 2,041]

12 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Nurse...  Nurse.... someone has allowed them internet access again.   Come quick get them another tin foil hat.

 

Christ if I had a pound for every time someone desperately brings up the word neoliberal to try to further their pointless argument I could have retired long ago.

😀😀👍

[Staunton 18]

It is essential to notice that the facts my point exposes cannot be argued away or dismissed. Therefore the strategy adopted by those who prefer us ordinary people to remain ignorant of the scandal of tax abuse is to mock in the hope of distracting from the issue. It's a routine device.

 

Tax abuse is cheating the system. The claim that no laws are broken by people or businesses avoiding tax is hollow. The facts are that governments acting in the interests of wealth and privilege dismantle progressive tax legislation and seed loopholes that facilitate tax abuse.

[Anna B 1,414]

7 hours ago, Tony said:

Around 35% of people pay no income tax at all.

Around 1% of people pay 35% of all income tax.

 

Is that fair?

If someone pays a great deal of tax it's because they have a great deal of money, probably more than the average man in the street can even imagine. If they want to pay less tax, let them feel free to swap places with the ordinary man in the street any time.