New Road Needed To City Centre

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

12 minutes ago, Bargepole23 said:

Where has anybody suggesting enforcement? It's called social responsibility, where people decide for themselves. You might not have any but try not to judge others by your own standards.

 

Clearly, less cars on the road, things move better. Happens already, happening right now with reduction in cars due to WFH.

 

Whether they then decide to get back in their cars, is up to them. But it's just a bus journey, or a walk, or a bike ride. Nothing difficult for a lot of people.

 

Graspable?

Hmmm...

... so your idea like many on here is just a load of hot air.

 

People are already deciding for themselves, and they're choosing to use their cars!

 

And you lose what little credibility you may have had the moment you try to judge others standards of 'social responsibility' without having the remotest knowledge of what you're talking about...

[Longcol 592]

10 hours ago, Tony said:

Agreed, and if I could add that this is entirely in the council's gift to;

1. Stagger school-day start and finish times,
2. Stagger term start / end dates,
3. Create and enforce no-drive zones around schools at the start and end of the day. 

A genuinely creative council might even have schools operating seven days a week. 

 

They would also ensure that every school had a walk / cycle policy with facilities on the premises to encourage it while implementing policies and traffic control measures that make it as inconvenient as possible for kids to be driven to school.

It isn't in the councils gift to stagger working hours for parents - nor conjure up resources for no drive zones, seven day operation etc

 

Can the council make academy schools change start times, term time etc?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Longcol

[Bargepole23 337]

14 hours ago, Mr Bloke said:

Hmmm...

... so your idea like many on here is just a load of hot air.

 

People are already deciding for themselves, and they're choosing to use their cars!

 

And you lose what little credibility you may have had the moment you try to judge others standards of 'social responsibility' without having the remotest knowledge of what you're talking about...

All ideas on here are hot air....its a forum, a place for discussion.

 

In summary, some people are bone idle. Let them sit in their traffic jams. I'll cycle or walk past them and be home before them and be healthier and wealthier than them.

[HeHasRisen 3,370]

12 hours ago, Longcol said:

It isn't in the councils gift to stagger working hours for parents - nor conjure up resources for no drive zones, seven day operation etc

 

Can the council make academy schools change start times, term time etc?

No. Nor can they make private enterprises change start and finish times for their employees to fit into to these proposed new school start/finish times.

[Rockers rule 673]

I'm off to Glasgow car 4hr+ 

Train 5hr

Bus 8hr 

 

For those walking see you in a fortnight  

 

[Findlay 116]

Good leaders don't make anyone do anything, they encourage praise and reward. They also lay out very clear the consequences of not doing something.

[AndrewC 300]

On 20/09/2021 at 18:55, Rockers rule said:

Persecuted - No - Fleeced & a easy cash cow. 

 

Permit holders areas  everywhere (paying for something you are already paying for).

Disgusting condition of our roads (something road tax was introduced for).

Bigger cars - higher taxation paying for those using the same roads paying zero or minuscule amounts.

My 2.4 £300+,  Lads 1.6 turbo diesel £20 .

Cost of fuel .

Messing with Fuel grades putting 1,000 of cars potentially on the scrap heap.

& we'll not even go into insurance company's. 

Dare to go in a Bus lane, smile for the camera and wait for the fine to come.

 

Keep safe 

 

 

 

You're making a very common mistake; thinking that because you spend a lot of money owning & operating a car (and I don't deny that you do) then that must mean you're paying more than you should have to. False. Whatever we pay to operate a car, we're usually paying less than the costs we're incurring on society. It's just the costs are surprisingly higher and more numerous than many people realise.

 

The costs to society of car use are immense - far more than is often let on by the motoring industry and others, and far more than most motorists realise. The costs of building and maintaining road infrastructure is eye-watering, even compared to what we spending on national rail or public transport projects, let alone the peanuts that pedestrian & cycling infrastructure costs. There's no such thing as free parking. Air & noise pollution from car use causes massive costs for health services & councils.  Etc. etc.

 

As for the specifics you've listed;

 

Permits; As above, on-street parking is paid for by everyone, but supply & demand dictates that pricing is used to manage things. Local parking permit schemes almost exclusively only exist in places where too many people are trying to park. Do you bemoan paying any parking costs?

 

There is no Road Tax in this country. The last thing anything like a road tax - as I suspect you mean it - was abolished in the 30s I think it was?! Road maintenance comes out of council and Highways England budgets, and is funded through general taxation. We all pay for the upkeep of the roads (despite cars owners & other large vehicles doing all the damage). Car Tax is based on emissions, and is - in effect - a tax on pollution. Buy an electric car if you don't want to pay tax.

 

Bigger cars/cost of fuel/fuel grades - If your car uses petrol/diesel then you are using a diminishing resource, not to mention polluting your local area, as well as contributing to global climate change. It's perfectly sensible that the bigger your car, the bigger the tax, and it's perfectly rational that fuel costs are high. We have to move towards phasing out the most polluting cars so that people move towards cleaner engines (even cleaner combustion engines) and electric vehicles, and/or reducing car-use completely. 

 

Insurance: Insurance companies and legal requirements for insurance are both based on where they are needed. Car insurance is high because accidents involving car causes a costly amount of damage! Even a modest car 'crash' will end up costing a few hundred quid. Cyclists don't require insurance because on they very rarely cause damage that would make it worthwhile.

 

Bus lanes/gates, and other restrictions are there for a reason. Don't want to get fined, don't go in them. If you disagree with their reason for being, you should take that up with a councillor.

 

Edited September 23, 2021 by AndrewC

[AndrewC 300]

7 hours ago, Rockers rule said:

I'm off to Glasgow car 4hr+ 

Train 5hr

Bus 8hr 

 

For those walking see you in a fortnight  

 

Hmm, maybe it was different timings this morning, but Google right now:

Car - 4hr 18m

Train - 4hr 28m

🤔 

 

If I was going to the city centre in Glasgow, I'd be using the train for that time difference. If you're travelling to the countryside nearby or the suburbs, probably car.

 

Either way, not sure what it has to do with excessive car use in a areas like Meadowhead & Woodseats (this thread)?

[carosio 185]

57 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

The costs to society of car use are immense - far more than is often let on by the motoring industry and others, and far more than most motorists realise. The costs of building and maintaining road infrastructure is eye-watering, even compared to what we spending on national rail or public transport projects, let alone the peanuts that pedestrian & cycling infrastructure costs.

 

There is no Road Tax in this country. The last thing anything like a road tax - as I suspect you mean it - was abolished in the 30s I think it was?! Road maintenance comes out of council and Highways England budgets, and is funded through general taxation. We all pay for the upkeep of the roads (despite cars owners & other large vehicles doing all the damage). Car Tax is based on emissions, and is - in effect - a tax on pollution. Buy an electric car if you don't want to pay tax.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Even if private motoring ended tomorrow, that same road infrastructure would still have to be maintained to a good standard for use by the police, ambulance, fire service, taxis, vans, buses, lorries (electric or not) and lots of cyclists, and there would be a big increase in delivery vehicles to plug the gap left by private cars.

 

[altus 533]

21 minutes ago, carosio said:

 

Even if private motoring ended tomorrow, that same road infrastructure would still have to be maintained to a good standard for use by the police, ambulance, fire service, taxis, vans, buses, lorries (electric or not) and lots of cyclists, and there would be a big increase in delivery vehicles to plug the gap left by private cars.

 

They wouldn't wear out anything like as quickly though so wouldn't cost so much to maintain.

 

Trying to 'cure' congestion by pandering to people who are never going to try any other alternatives to their cars is futile - both in terms of effort and achieving results. Better to focus efforts on improving the journeys for those who are prepared to regularly leave the car behind.

[Rockers rule 673]

1 hour ago, AndrewC said:

You're making a very common mistake; thinking that because you spend a lot of money owning & operating a car (and I don't deny that you do) then that must mean you're paying more than you should have to. False. Whatever we pay to operate a car, we're usually paying less than the costs we're incurring on society. It's just the costs are surprisingly higher and more numerous than many people realise.

 

The costs to society of car use are immense - far more than is often let on by the motoring industry and others, and far more than most motorists realise. The costs of building and maintaining road infrastructure is eye-watering, even compared to what we spending on national rail or public transport projects, let alone the peanuts that pedestrian & cycling infrastructure costs. There's no such thing as free parking. Air & noise pollution from car use causes massive costs for health services & councils.  Etc. etc.

 

As for the specifics you've listed;

 

Permits; As above, on-street parking is paid for by everyone, but supply & demand dictates that pricing is used to manage things. Local parking permit schemes almost exclusively only exist in places where too many people are trying to park. Do you bemoan paying any parking costs?

 

There is no Road Tax in this country. The last thing anything like a road tax - as I suspect you mean it - was abolished in the 30s I think it was?! Road maintenance comes out of council and Highways England budgets, and is funded through general taxation. We all pay for the upkeep of the roads (despite cars owners & other large vehicles doing all the damage). Car Tax is based on emissions, and is - in effect - a tax on pollution. Buy an electric car if you don't want to pay tax.

 

Bigger cars/cost of fuel/fuel grades - If your car uses petrol/diesel then you are using a diminishing resource, not to mention polluting your local area, as well as contributing to global climate change. It's perfectly sensible that the bigger your car, the bigger the tax, and it's perfectly rational that fuel costs are high. We have to move towards phasing out the most polluting cars so that people move towards cleaner engines (even cleaner combustion engines) and electric vehicles, and/or reducing car-use completely. 

 

Insurance: Insurance companies and legal requirements for insurance are both based on where they are needed. Car insurance is high because accidents involving car causes a costly amount of damage! Even a modest car 'crash' will end up costing a few hundred quid. Cyclists don't require insurance because on they very rarely cause damage that would make it worthwhile.

 

Bus lanes/gates, and other restrictions are there for a reason. Don't want to get fined, don't go in them. If you disagree with their reason for being, you should take that up with a councillor.

 

I could do with a Counselor.

 

So, come the day all the 'air polluting' cars have gone leaving only electric cars and those who's pollution is 'acceptable' .

& no one is paying more than £20 as a contribution to the  wear and tear of the roads they are using. The amount of tax  'We 

all pay for the upkeep of the roads'  will have to be increased to compensate for the lack of revenue.

 

The fallacy that electric cars, don't make as much impact on a road surface than a car with the same size of wheels weight and floor plan,

is hog wash.  

 

Explain the tax based on emissions being 'perfectly acceptable and the Governments ever so nice decision for us Classic Car owners 

with vehicles that require no MOT, pay no Road tax and qualify for very good deals on cheap insurance.

 

As a recovery driver I don't think there is much you can tell me about crashed vehicles and the cost to repair them.

Of course the magical 'Electric' car is going to be exempt from crashes once we have the perfect road net work.

 

Keep safe i'm off to buy a Smart car.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bargepole23 337]

1 hour ago, Rockers rule said:

I could do with a Counselor.

 

So, come the day all the 'air polluting' cars have gone leaving only electric cars and those who's pollution is 'acceptable' .

& no one is paying more than £20 as a contribution to the  wear and tear of the roads they are using. The amount of tax  'We 

all pay for the upkeep of the roads'  will have to be increased to compensate for the lack of revenue.

 

The fallacy that electric cars, don't make as much impact on a road surface than a car with the same size of wheels weight and floor plan,

is hog wash.  

 

Explain the tax based on emissions being 'perfectly acceptable and the Governments ever so nice decision for us Classic Car owners 

with vehicles that require no MOT, pay no Road tax and qualify for very good deals on cheap insurance.

 

As a recovery driver I don't think there is much you can tell me about crashed vehicles and the cost to repair them.

Of course the magical 'Electric' car is going to be exempt from crashes once we have the perfect road net work.

 

Keep safe i'm off to buy a Smart car.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why are you discussing car crashes in relation to electric cars? Has anybody suggested they would be less susceptible to crashes?

 

Why are you discussing wear and tear in relation to electric cars, who has suggested that wear and tear is any different?

 

I would imagine that once electric cars are more common, specific taxation on them will increase to fill the gap in tax income.