Special Relationshop

[whiteowl 54]

I'm talking about the "special relationship" with the USA.

 

Was reading tonight that Prince Andrew has been served with papers in an American court and it got me thinking (don't get me wrong, if he's done something wrong then he should get done for it)

 

However, personally I tell them to eff off until Harry Dunn's killer is brought back to the UK to serve justice.

 

Thinking more, is the relationship that special? Looking back in history, they've not been that great to us. Suez for example.

Sure they joined in, eventually, in World War 2 but only after Germany declare war on them - I'm fairly certain they wouldn't have joined in the European campaign unless that had happened.

 

I get that they are the biggest kid on the block but do we really have to follow them blindly when we get very little in return?

 

Is it really that special? 😐

[Annie Bynnol 611]

18 minutes ago, whiteowl said:

I'm talking about the "special relationship" with the USA.

 

Was reading tonight that Prince Andrew has been served with papers in an American court and it got me thinking (don't get me wrong, if he's done something wrong then he should get done for it)

 

However, personally I tell them to eff off until Harry Dunn's killer is brought back to the UK to serve justice.

 

Thinking more, is the relationship that special? Looking back in history, they've not been that great to us. Suez for example.

Sure they joined in, eventually, in World War 2 but only after Germany declare war on them - I'm fairly certain they wouldn't have joined in the European campaign unless that had happened.

 

I get that they are the biggest kid on the block but do we really have to follow them blindly when we get very little in return?

 

Is it really that special? 😐

The engagement of the USA in WWII was seen as the political priority by Churchill.

The supply of food, raw materials, shipping, money and armaments before Pear Harbour was critical to Britains' survival.

Their industrial capacity and manpower won the war in Western Europe and the Pacific.

At the end of WWII the US protected and paid for the rebuilding of Western Europe.

NATO

UN

UK nuclear technology is essentially American.

American technology won the Cold War as the Soviets desperately tried to catch up and bankrupted themselves in the process.

Perhaps the relationship is weakening but the US finds the UK its strongest and most supportive ally and we depend on American technology for our defence.

 

[Tipstaff 159]

I believe that it is as special as any relationship between two very different nations can be.  Winston Churchill's persuasiveness and tenacity in WWII encouraged the US to get involved and ultimately helped us save half the planet from having to become Nazi slaves.

 

There are diplomatic and maybe constitutional issues with both Prince Andrew and the Harry Dunn cases, which in truth, both separately and collectively shouldn't largely have much effect on our two nations' relationships.

 

It's better to have a big friend, than a big enemy.  Blind obedience has no place in this and I don't really think we have seen that in practice. 

 

I hope our two nations continue in friendship.  We will both be enriched by it.

[El Cid 210]

They are like our rich uncle, we do as they say because they are our benefactor. We were quite close to the EU, but we told them were to go and look where we are now.

[Anna B 1,401]

The special relationship seems only to be on our side. The Americans couldn't care less although it suits their purpose sometimes to 'acknowledge' it in order to take advantage. We slavishly seem to follow American ways and systems although they are proved to be some of the worst in the western world world, for example healthcare and education. There are much better examples to follow closer to home in Europe; the Scandinavians for instance do a much better job in almost all areas.

 

As far as the second world war is concerned, the Americans did very well out of it charging us handsomely thankyou, with a massive debt which was only finally paid off in the 1990's. And have dragged us into their ever ego boosting military engagements ever since.

 

Even the Americans are beginning to wise up to the much peddled myth of the 'American dream,' and the country is now in terminal decline in the face of competition from the East. Beware a dangerous, injured tiger who will fight to the death and take us with it. 

[Cyclecar 24]

USA foreign policy is almost always an exercise in self-interest. Their internal politics, and certainly the well-being of their big corporations and their financial behemoths are front and centre. Any overseas action will have considerations for congress and elections, and if those actions happen to coincide with UK wishes - then hey it's a special relationship.

 

This was a big problem in 1982 when Maggie sent a task force to re-take the Falklands. She never asked Washington, although Reagan was supposed to be her chum. The Yanks were incandescent, as the latino vote is, in some states, pivotal. They wanted to block our use of Ascension Island as a staging post even though it is British territory, and satellite data, which had always been shared, suddenly went off-line. Sinking the Belgrano using one of our nuclear subs compounded the issue. Fortunately, the US military were generally supportive, whereas their politicians were ambivalent. 

 

I am given to understand that our 'independent' nuclear deterrent (Trident) cannot be launched unless they give their assent, but ask if anyone has heard the same. 

 

Until very recently, our membership of the EU was seen by Washington as a gateway into money and influence in their favour. The 'relationship' has now  been downgraded accordingly. Also the very effective Irish lobby in the US is always trying to tell us what to do with all things Irish. 

 

I note the posts regarding the legal systems, another example of the 'relationship' being skewed their way.  Were it not for him being the Queen's son, Andrew would have been cuffed and extradited by US Marshals and banged up until the trial, which could take months, as it would encourage him to make a plea. 

 

There is no Special Relationship, there is a relationship based on language and history, but monitored by USA big interests. 

[crookesey 620]

My thoughts and sympathy’s are with Harry’s parents, however I seriously doubt if the yanks quite see it my way. However I am certain that if Prince Andrew never sets foot on American turf again he will never be prosecuted, exactly the same as Anne Sacoolas if she does similar in respect to the U.K.

 

This is where the similarities end, I’m not the correct person to judge Prince Andrew, being a serial anti royalist, however I’m certain that the royals have got away with more than we can ever imagine. You only have to go back to the reign of James the first, who had Sir Walter Raleigh executed on trumped up charges of treason because he simply didn’t like him. Andrew inherited his father’s good looks and quickly became a lady’s man, a position that I feel he takes for granted, his father was far more discreet.‘

[Thirsty Relic 206]

Remember not so long ago when Trump met BoJo and Trump wanted the NHS "on the table" in negotiations?  There were reports at the time that they wanted the data that the NHS had on its patients more than anything else, so they could sell it on to their medical giants.

 

BoJo claimed he'd got a deal with the US without that, and that "the NHS is safe in our hands".  Since then, there has been the great NHS data grab,  the census run by an American firm, and American firms taking over a number of NHS Practices.

 

The relationship certainly seems to be one way to me.

[GabrielC 53]

35 minutes ago, Thirsty Relic said:

Remember not so long ago when Trump met BoJo and Trump wanted the NHS "on the table" in negotiations?  There were reports at the time that they wanted the data that the NHS had on its patients more than anything else, so they could sell it on to their medical giants.

 

BoJo claimed he'd got a deal with the US without that, and that "the NHS is safe in our hands".  Since then, there has been the great NHS data grab,  the census run by an American firm, and American firms taking over a number of NHS Practices.

 

The relationship certainly seems to be one way to me.

America is only a friend when it suits them they don't negotiate from weakness only in strength. Going back to Trump administration era they knew Brexit left us with a poor hand we needed trade deals any trade deals the NHS was and still would be on the table.  The Tories traditional hated of the NHS will ensure that it is not safe in their hands it is far to socialist for them too much money could be made though privatisation and U.S health care model. 

 

The same applies to oversee wars what's in it for us ? Yes the so called ' Special Relationship ' is a one way street and always will be.

 

 

[hauxwell 242]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

And have dragged us into their ever ego boosting military engagements ever since.

There was one military engagement the USA didn’t manage to drag us into, and that was Vietnam.  Harold Wilson was the PM at the time.  I think the reason why he didn’t support the USA was because we couldn’t afford to.

Thank heavens we didn’t stand shoulder to shoulder with the USA on that war because I believe there would have been a lot of British casualties.