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Social Care - Increase Tax Or Not.

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So he has put NI up 1.25%, how can the people trust him he has lied, he has broken promises made in the manifesto and still he has a job. Time we got shut of him and his cronies, won't be a surprise if some of the MP's will make money with links to various companies, trouble is there is no credible opposition and he knows it.

Edited by iansheff

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On 05/09/2021 at 14:13, crookesey said:

And the Tories will still have a good laugh at Labour if you guys insist on the continuance of the National Insurance contribution increase accusations.

Accusations? Really?

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10 minutes ago, iansheff said:

So he has put NI up 1.25%, how can the people trust him he has lied, he has broken promises made in the manifesto and still he has a job. Time we got shut of him and his cronies, won't be a surprise if some of the MP's will make money with links to various companies, trouble is there is no credible opposition and he knows it.

The world has changed since the 2019 Tory election manifesto.  The change in circumstances justifies an increase in National Insurance contributions.

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Social care should never have been separated from the NHS, and the NHS should never have outsourced it's responsibilities to private, profit driven companies. 

National insurance should have gone up every year since its inception in line with inflation, and ring fenced, for obvious reasons. 

 

Alzheimers is the biggest issue in social care and frankly, for the money that's charged, the care is abysmal.  It's not 'just a disease of old age' or every old person would have it, and no 45 year olds would be suffering from it which they are. It's a lottery and makes the difference between penury in old age, or leaving your life's work to your children. It is a quantifiable illness and should qualify for 'continuing care' funding just like other diseases, (though even less and less of these are being covered too.)

 

As for covid causing any of this, that's rubbish. This problem goes back years to well before the pandemic. As usual Boris is hiding behind it. 

 

The money/taxes going into solving the problem will simply go into the back pockets of the company chiefs and care providers, and do little to improve the quality of care, the understaffing, or the minimum wage of the hardworkers. 

 

Look to the Scandinavian countries to see how it should be done.  

Edited by Anna B

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6 minutes ago, taxman said:

Accusations? Really?

Yup, something muted about being implemented tomorrow is an accusation, something that has happened today is fact, that’s real.

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15 minutes ago, crookesey said:

Yup, something muted about being implemented tomorrow is an accusation, something that has happened today is fact, that’s real.

Do you think the Tories will still be having a good laugh at Labour now they've actually announced they will implement the thing Labour accused them of?

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26 minutes ago, altus said:

Do you think the Tories will still be having a good laugh at Labour now they've actually announced they will implement the thing Labour accused them of?

He who laughs last laughs longest (I prefer loudest), I wouldn’t trust either to tell the truth about anything, they are most likely all in the member’s bar having a good laugh at us.

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Social care should never have been separated from the NHS, and the NHS should never have outsourced it's responsibilities to private, profit driven companies. 

National insurance should have gone up every year since its inception in line with inflation, and ring fenced, for obvious reasons. 

 

Alzheimers is the biggest issue in social care and frankly, for the money that's charged, the care is abysmal.  It's not 'just a disease of old age' or every old person would have it, and no 45 year olds would be suffering from it which they are. It's a lottery and makes the difference between penury in old age, or leaving your life's work to your children. It is a quantifiable illness and should qualify for 'continuing care' funding just like other diseases, (though even less and less of these are being covered too.)

 

As for covid causing any of this, that's rubbish. This problem goes back years to well before the pandemic. As usual Boris is hiding behind it. 

 

The money/taxes going into solving the problem will simply go into the back pockets of the company chiefs and care providers, and do little to improve the quality of care, the understaffing, or the minimum wage of the hardworkers. 

 

Look to the Scandinavian countries to see how it should be done.  

Exactly right Anna. Well said!

 

My dad developed the dreaded disease and ended up in a care home after he'd been discharged from hospital. He was never 'wealthy' but because he'd put some savings aside for his old age he ended up paying the entire £1200 per week for what was very basic care. And that's after paying his NI for the whole of his working life. Many of us will be in the same boat when you factor in the value of all assets such as houses. And all, as Anna says, to line the pockets of the already wealthy company chiefs of the private 'care' providers.

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1 hour ago, West 77 said:

The world has changed since the 2019 Tory election manifesto.  The change in circumstances justifies an increase in National Insurance contributions.

What was he originally going to do?

 

He told us he had a plan. What was it?

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On 05/09/2021 at 18:24, Anna B said:

Yes they most certainly do, and fleece us in the process. But there is very little in the way of accountability unlike any other business venture. They just use the government as a cash cow.

 

Most of the big companies like Serco and Capita are headed up by Boris's friends and cronies anyway, all making a nice bob or two (or £millions) out of the taxpayer.

And the Government in turn use the public as their cash cow, such as allowing energy companies to increase prices by 15% and more because they will take more money in  VAT. 

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48 minutes ago, Victor Meldrew said:

Exactly right Anna. Well said!

 

My dad developed the dreaded disease and ended up in a care home after he'd been discharged from hospital. He was never 'wealthy' but because he'd put some savings aside for his old age he ended up paying the entire £1200 per week for what was very basic care. And that's after paying his NI for the whole of his working life. Many of us will be in the same boat when you factor in the value of all assets such as houses. And all, as Anna says, to line the pockets of the already wealthy company chiefs of the private 'care' providers.

I agree entirely. My dad worked hard to by his house and after he died mum got dementia. We did everything possible to look after her and keep her in her own home but eventually it was taken out of our hands and she had to go into a care home. The cost was over £1000 a week. If she didn't own her house we would have at least have had some financial help. The whole system seems very unfair.

Edited by Rollypolly

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We have an ever-growing population in which people are living longer - or at least being kept alive for longer. The need for more and more social care will only increase in future. In principle, I agree that taxes need to be increased to cater for this ever growing need, but under the current system, any extra tax revenue raised would only go to line the pockets of greedy private sector contractors or would be frittered away by understaffed, inefficient, badly managed Local Councils.

 

These days, when people who need additional care - either in a residential  Care Home or in their own homes - after being discharged from hospital or becoming too infirm to look after themselves - they are just dumped on local Councils' Social Services departments. The local councils can't cope, so the people are pushed into privately run Care Homes or contracted out to privately run  Care-in-your-own- home  companies. The private companies are paid huge sums of public money  but because they are only interested in profit, they are usually understaffed, with poorly paid, poorly trained people who give an inadequate service to their clients.

 

My own view is that all social care should be provided by the Government, none of it should be hived off to the Private Sector and no-one should have to sell their home or spend their life savings to get the care they need when they are too old or too ill/disabled to look after themselves. I think the Government should set up and entirely new department - The National Social Care Service. This new service should be publicly funded and should have sole responsibility for the provision & management of all social care in  residential  Care Homes and for giving people care in their own homes.  When a hospital or GP feels a patient needs social care, they would refer them to this National Social Care Service - who would recruit and train their own staff, pay them decent wages and give them decent working conditions. The new service would also be responsible for ensuring that people being cared for in their own homes are given all the equipment and home-adaptations they need to help keep them as independent as possible - like providing wheelchairs, beds etc, or installing wheelchair ramps, upgrading bathrooms & kitchens

 

I know my idea sounds utopian and is unlikely to ever happen, but I think the only way to improve existing dire social care is not just to raise taxes and throw more money into a system that already isn't working. The provision of social care needs root-and-branch reform and a whole new way of delivering it. By all means, raise more money by increasing taxes - but the extra money needs to be spent more wisely too.

 

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