Social Care - Increase Tax Or Not.

[crookesey 635]

1 hour ago, alchresearch said:

Thank Goodness Labour changed that when they came into power in 2010..........

 

The thing is, there are some positives to privatisation.   That's why when Labour finally come to power again nothing will change.

I’d have taken EU  membership a lot more seriously if I were on one of the £40K p/a French State Pensions.

Edited September 8, 2021 by crookesey

[Bargepole23 337]

2 hours ago, West 77 said:

No worries, you continue not listening to reason and spouting loser SNP propaganda.  As a proud Englishman who supports Brexit and supports the union the icing on the cake is the SNP know it's English voters who will ultimately decide whether there ever will be another Scottish Independence referendum by the way they vote in a General Election and choose the makeup of the Westminster Parliament.

 

That's been swallowed up by the extra funding given to the NHS as a consequence of funding pandemic related expenditure.  You should be embarrassed for quoting that figure given the circumstances.

Either that, or was a lie. I'm going with lie.

49 minutes ago, West 77 said:

There's no dispute that since the UK left the EU the NHS has been funded by more than an extra £350 million a week which now makes whatever exact words written on the red bus in 2016 irrelevant.  The consequences of dealing with an unforeseen and  a pandemic not budgeted for also make the Tory 2019 December General Election manifesto irrelevant.  At the next General Election the electorate will judge the Tory party led by Boris on how well or how badly they believe the Tory Government managed an unforeseen pandemic.  Also the electorate will take into consideration whether they believe the main opposition party would have coped any better than the Tory Government.  

No it doesn't. The suggestion was that the alleged £350m would be routed from the EU to the NHS and was presented as a good reason to not be in the EU. Is there any proof whatsoever that happened? An increase in NHS spending is not any sort of proof of that, merely that money has been conjured up by one means or another.

[El Cid 220]

2 hours ago, Bargepole23 said:

Either that, or was a lie. I'm going with lie.

No it doesn't. The suggestion was that the alleged £350m would be routed from the EU to the NHS and was presented as a good reason to not be in the EU. Is there any proof whatsoever that happened? An increase in NHS spending is not any sort of proof of that, merely that money has been conjured up by one means or another.

The things is, that the Government will save money, alledged to be £350 million per week; but businesses  would suffer extra costs because the UK would no longer get favourable treatment. That is so far true, looking at EU/UK trade.

[Magilla 510]

3 hours ago, West 77 said:

There's no dispute that since the UK left the EU the NHS has been funded by more than an extra £350 million a week which now makes whatever exact words written on the red bus in 2016 irrelevant.

Borrowed money, temporary funding.

 

None of that money came from any savings from leaving the EU... there aren't any.

[Magilla 510]

33 minutes ago, West 77 said:

I doubt the penny will ever drop that you're trying to flog a dead horse with your pro EU propaganda.

It's not "Pro-EU" it's simply stating a fact, Brexit has and will cost significantly more than membership ever did, in perpetuity.

 

The problems facing the essential services leaving was supposed to help are, as a result, exacerbated.

 

33 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The vast majority of the normal general public who make up the electorate now have no interest in Brexit now that Brexit has been done and our country has left the EU.

You wish... but no.

 

Brexit is still in the news, almost every day

 

33 minutes ago, West 77 said:

You need to wake up and smell the coffee and realise you and the other ramainer losers who have no respect for democracy are irrelevant.

We can vote, so no, we're not

 

33 minutes ago, West 77 said:

 Finito, Fini, Fertig, The End.

... of your dignity? Most certainly!

[Anna B 1,414]

7 hours ago, Magilla said:

Promises *were* made and as such circumstances have changed.. as before, sauce for the goose.

 

Let's not forget that a significant portion of the problems with social care are also a result of Brexit, certainly staffing and funding... it's not all the fault of the pandemic.

It's the fault of neither Brexit nor the Pandemic as the problems have been evident for a long time previous to either of those. 

Austerity for 10+ years certainly hasn't helped, and decreasing help for the disabled has been nothing short of scandalous, counter productive, and cost us a lot more in the long run. 

It's no accident that Boris decided to announce his 'solution' at a time when he could conveniently hide tax increases behind the pandemic. The social care system will see very little of it. Believe me when I say his 'solution' will solve nothing, just make his friends and cronies running the privatised care and health services a whole lot richer.  

[Anna B 1,414]

7 hours ago, Magilla said:

Quite so, but Brexit has certainly exacerbated those problems... in the long run, probably more than the pandemic will.

Let's not forget charismatic, lovable old Boris was the big cheese behind the Brexit vote stirring everyone up and encouraging us to vote out with his lies and propaganda....  Some of us believed him. 

[El Cid 220]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Austerity for 10+ years certainly hasn't helped

 

Austerity was partly political, but they repaid Government borrowing gradually, perhaps too gradually.

This massive tax hike seems way too much of a shock for our economy, it will be massive. Increasing NI by 10% and there is also a tax on dividends, then in a couple of years there is the corporation tax hike, its massively deflationary.

I am not an economist, perhaps its easy peasy for Dishy Rishy.

[Anna B 1,414]

8 hours ago, alchresearch said:

Thank Goodness Labour changed that when they came into power in 2010..........

 

The thing is, there are some positives to privatisation.   That's why when Labour finally come to power again nothing will change.

It won't change under Starmer that's for sure. He's neither the courage nor the inclination.

Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn is raising support for a National Care Service.

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

It's the fault of neither Brexit nor the Pandemic as the problems have been evident for a long time previous to either of those. 

Quite so, Brexit just makes them worse.

 

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

Austerity for 10+ years certainly hasn't helped, and decreasing help for the disabled has been nothing short of scandalous, counter productive, and cost us a lot more in the long run. 

It's no accident that Boris decided to announce his 'solution' at a time when he could conveniently hide tax increases behind the pandemic. The social care system will see very little of it. Believe me when I say his 'solution' will solve nothing, just make his friends and cronies running the privatised care and health services a whole lot richer.  

It's ~£230m a week... doesn't even make up the extra expense we're currently paying out as a result of Brexit, even with this NI increase public finances are still going backwards!

 

None of this money will go towards social care, even the IFS admits this is probably true:

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15599

 

 

 

[Anna B 1,414]

1 hour ago, Magilla said:

Quite so, Brexit just makes them worse.

 

It's ~£230m a week... doesn't even make up the extra expense we're currently paying out as a result of Brexit, even with this NI increase public finances are still going backwards!

 

None of this money will go towards social care, even the IFS admits this is probably true:

https://ifs.org.uk/publications/15599

 

 

 

So true. It's just a blind alley to justify breaking the Tory manifesto commitment not to raise taxes.

They're not even honest enough to admit it, so they conflate two separate things, The need to raise taxes, and the mess our social care is in.

I don't doubt we'll be back here next year asking where our money's gone, 'cause nothing has changed....

[L00b 441]

14 hours ago, El Cid said:

The things is, that the Government will save money, alledged to be £350 million per week; but businesses  would suffer extra costs because the UK would no longer get favourable treatment. That is so far true, looking at EU/UK trade.

The thing is, that government money comes from taxation, and that most of the tax collected is on business profits. A business making no profits, pays no taxes.
 

‘Uh-oh’, indeed.