Social Care - Increase Tax Or Not.

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 hours ago, ab6262 said:

get a grip!!! 99% will never pay tax they will become our burden adding to the lot we already have dragging this country deeper into the financial mire! we have more than enough already costing billions.

 

 

Any proof of that?

 

Plenty of stories on how they train to become doctors etc. If they're successful in seeking asylum and are given permission to stay they'll want to crack on like everyone else. Most will have greater ambition for than working cash in hand at a car wash.

[harvey19 541]

22 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Any proof of that?

 

Plenty of stories on how they train to become doctors etc. If they're successful in seeking asylum and are given permission to stay they'll want to crack on like everyone else. Most will have greater ambition for than working cash in hand at a car wash.

It would be interesting to see what jobs they do percentage wise., You quote training to be doctors but what percentage do and were they qualified as doctors or had the relevant qualifications to train before coming here.

Presumably you are not referring to illegal immigrants.

Edited September 11, 2021 by harvey19

[the_bloke 17]

Has anyone proposed an alternative plan to raise more funds than what the Government is going to do? Angela Rayner was on the Today programme this morning saying how awful the increase to NI is but provided zero alternatives.

[Anna B 1,414]

54 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

Has anyone proposed an alternative plan to raise more funds than what the Government is going to do? Angela Rayner was on the Today programme this morning saying how awful the increase to NI is but provided zero alternatives.

What about this? Labour's fully costed plan in 2019 for a National Care Service. Probably needs a bit of tweaking, but I bet most people had never even heard it existed which is interesting in itself.

 

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/12703_19-Towards-the-National-Care-Service.pdf

Edited September 13, 2021 by Anna B

[sheffbag 230]

On 09/09/2021 at 19:24, Anna B said:

This Social care plan,  

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/12703_19-Towards-the-National-Care-Service.pdf 

Fully costed and ready to go in 2019 while Boris was lying his head off and whittering about Brexit in order to win an election.

 

In any discussion about Social Care, how can this alternative idea be classed as 'an irrelevance.' Especially when people are questioning the entire current system as not fit for purpose.

It's so 'irrelevant' that it is being taken up by the SNP as a way forward for Scotland who may well adopt it.

 

On 09/09/2021 at 23:49, sheffbag said:

Is this the one that labour ditched last year due to being in feasible cost wise?
considering this is originally the one touted in 2010 it’s not ‘jeremys plan’ is it. 
 

it’s an irrelevance because

a) Corbyn is a single independent mp with no party backing so his opinion is worth 0.16% within the realms of HOP voting. He is no more important than Martin Bell used to be

b) The Labour Party have ditched this plan as it would cost way too much to implement 

 

I can’t see the costing for this in the plan. How much would it cost a year

 

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

What about this? Labour's fully costed plan in 2019 for a National Care Service. Probably needs a bit of tweaking, but I bet most people had never even heard it existed which is interesting in itself.

 

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/12703_19-Towards-the-National-Care-Service.pdf

isnt that the same one that i replied to back on page 14 and you didnt comment on it so again. She didnt comment on it as Labour have ditched the plan and where's the costing for it?

 

[nightrider 13]

On 10/09/2021 at 08:57, crookesey said:

OK I await and expect the angry replies.

I recently viewed an episode of ‘Escape To The Country’ where a married couple consisting of a couple of very young medics, one a NHS doctor, the other a NHS dentist. They were looking for something costing up to £1,500,000 whilst moving from something a lot less expensive. I wondered how much we pay young medics these days.

not enough to afford that. Must have other sources of funds.

 

Consultants are on 100k or so, young doctors on 20-30k or so I have been told.

 

On 10/09/2021 at 02:45, Anna B said:

 

What gets me is that our beloved NHS came into being during a time of severest austerity and high debt following the colossal  expenditure of the second world war, because men of vision saw a need and made it happen.

 

We can afford whatever they say we can afford, be it bombs, wars, duckponds, HS2 or a new royal yacht etc. They do have a magic money tree as we saw during the pandemic for whatever vanity projects take their fancy. A carefully thought out care plan such as this will save the NHS money in the long run. Far cheaper than constantly shelling out to greedy privatised companies/cartels whose prices go ever upwards. The prices they charge the NHS are top dollar and ridiculous.

the magic money tree is not unlimited (unless you want severe inflation), and the amount printed is already causing massive house price inflation (which is definitely NOT a good thing for society).

 

 

[Mister M 1,625]

Quite a few alternatives have been proposed.

A wealth or asset tax could be one solution. Another would be to use the income tax system. The government could overhaul the system of Council Tax, which to be fair is in need of reform. Social care costs could be more means tested so people might not have to sell their homes - depending on the care that they need. I think it's right that people over the retirement age who choose to continue to work should pay NIC. Perhaps the government could look at standardising the fees for the care given - which at the moment is pretty much of a postcode lottery.

 

With regards to the details, I think something that has not been looked at is housing. A key component of care is promoting independence as far as possible, this may mean people being in their home. However there is such a shortage of bungalows and adequate housing that is not at height, or is not suitable to meet the needs of an aging population that are able to and want to keep their independence. This will save money in other parts of the system in that people who are helped to keep their independence will be less reliant on secondary medical care. And most people want to keep their independence. 

 

Valuing the care workforce is another massive part of the jigsaw puzzle. Having staff not being paid between visits if they are domiciliary carers, or expecting them to forgo lunch breaks etc doesn't say they are valued to me. A significant proportion of the money raised should go to higher wages and staff development to recruit and retain staff in the sector. Obviously this would be in the interests of the clients as well, because of there isn't a high turnover of staff, clients could then build up a good relationship with the care staff allocated to them.

 

A National Care Service, similar in status to a National Health Service would I think make the system less fragile, more coordinated, and be able to advocate and lobby on behalf of service users, carers and staff in the system, and develop national minimum standards. I think over the last decade there has been increasing demands on the system, but spending has gone down by 3%. That's completely unsustainable and unfair.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by Mister M

[Anna B 1,414]

5 hours ago, sheffbag said:

 

 

isnt that the same one that i replied to back on page 14 and you didnt comment on it so again. She didnt comment on it as Labour have ditched the plan and where's the costing for it?

 

The point was it is not an irrelevance in that it contains good ideas and a possible blueprint for a way forward. I did say it would probably need tweaking. But how many people even knew it was part of Labour's 2019 manifesto? Labour ahead of the field yet again, but ignored on the media.. 

[El Cid 220]

10 hours ago, Anna B said:

What about this? Labour's fully costed plan in 2019 for a National Care Service. Probably needs a bit of tweaking, but I bet most people had never even heard it existed which is interesting in itself.

 

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/12703_19-Towards-the-National-Care-Service.pdf

That is because most people are not interested in reading detailed policies.

[Anna B 1,414]

11 hours ago, El Cid said:

That is because most people are not interested in reading detailed policies.

Yeah, and that's why we have such rubbish politicians/governments. People have to pay attention (especially to the small print) or get the governments they deserve...

[El Cid 220]

13 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Yeah, and that's why we have such rubbish politicians/governments. People have to pay attention (especially to the small print) or get the governments they deserve...

The partys need a good PR man to consult and to present the party to the media. Johnson has messed up by increasing NI, they obviously have a small circle of friends/colleagues that do not understand who pays NI.

Dividends are also having a tax increase, but the ordinary person will not understand that and there are many that will not have earnings from dividends.

 

[sheffbag 230]

16 hours ago, Anna B said:

The point was it is not an irrelevance in that it contains good ideas and a possible blueprint for a way forward. I did say it would probably need tweaking. But how many people even knew it was part of Labour's 2019 manifesto? Labour ahead of the field yet again, but ignored on the media.. 

Anna - you know that the irrelevance part of the reply was to you claiming it was your beloved Jeremy Corbyns policy, when it wasnt. it was first drafted in 2010.

 

You still wont say how its "fully costed".

JC got more airtime than any other leader during the election, if he couldnt get it across or publicise or the resto f his momentum lackeys couldnt promote it correctly, thats not the media's fault. Thats Labour. 

 

Ahead of the field? dont you mean so far behind in the elections they are on a different farm?