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Social Care - Increase Tax Or Not.

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2 hours ago, West 77 said:

It's not a blind alley that the government have had to borrow unprecedented amounts of money to fund expenditure needed to fund managing the pandemic which is the reason why the Tory manifesto commitment not to raise taxes has been broken. Any reasonable savvy person will understand why tax rises are happening unless they are addicted to political point scoring and can't see the wood for the trees.

Fair enough, but to cover it up by claiming it's to fund the NHS and Social Care is mendacious to say the least. And to say they have fixed the problem is also just pure deceit. They will pour our money into the back pockets of the privateers (who will simply up their already ridiculous prices) saying 'we have invested ..x.. in the NHS.  But mark my words, nothing will change on the ground for the benefit of the people using the NHS and Care system.

It's the system that needs a complete rethink.  

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5 minutes ago, West 77 said:

It's not really a cover up because it's been  made  clear the increase of 1.5% in NI will  eventually become a new separate tax to fund social care.  You do make a valid point regarding not fixing the social care problem and I suspect the extra tax money collected intended for social care will make no difference to the problem.  You have been correct in previous posts regarding private companies exploiting the situation motivated by profits. The whole social care sector needs a radical change and in an ideal world would come under the entire umbrella of the NHS. However, the big problem with the NHS is the massive amount of waste of taxpayer's money that occurs.  We can only hope now Brexit has been done and hopefully the pandemic is brought under control  sooner rather than later that future governments can donate more time and effort to sorting out the social care problems.  The general public also need take more responsible for their own vulnerable family members as well.

 

Regarding taxation all governments are guilty of using tax collected money for purposes other than the original intentions for why individual taxes were introduced.  Road tax is one of the best examples I can think of. 

Jeremy Corbyn is garnering support for his proposed 'National Care Service.' 

 

He is also saying that the proposed tax/national insurance hike will do nothing to alleviate the problems in the care system, and is not fair on the poorest in society, instead he proposes a wealth tax on the super rich, ie. those with assets over £5million. 

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15 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Jeremy Corbyn is garnering support for his proposed 'National Care Service.' 

 

He is also saying that the proposed tax/national insurance hike will do nothing to alleviate the problems in the care system, and is not fair on the poorest in society, instead he proposes a wealth tax on the super rich, ie. those with assets over £5million. 

only took you 14 pages to mention an independent MP who absolutely no relevance to the discussion. Which proposed National Care Service are you on about? The one in his 2019 election manefesto which got tore to shreds because it was unfeasible and has been dropped by the current leadership or the original Labour national care service unveiled in 2010 which JC had nothing to do with.

 

He's irrelevant and was rejected by the country and his own party.

 

FWIW I understand that something needs to be done and if it means i pay extra in order to support todays elderly and also ensure there is provision for when i get old or need help then the money has to come from somewhere.

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I don't normally watch politicians, but I was channel hopping when I saw a politician stand up (I thin it was in the HoCommons) and comment that if we thought that the HNS tax was a one-off we were way off.  As he put it, which party in future would decide the NHS didn't need the money from the tax, and scrap it?

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7 hours ago, sheffbag said:

only took you 14 pages to mention an independent MP who absolutely no relevance to the discussion. Which proposed National Care Service are you on about? The one in his 2019 election manefesto which got tore to shreds because it was unfeasible and has been dropped by the current leadership or the original Labour national care service unveiled in 2010 which JC had nothing to do with.

 

He's irrelevant and was rejected by the country and his own party.

 

FWIW I understand that something needs to be done and if it means i pay extra in order to support todays elderly and also ensure there is provision for when i get old or need help then the money has to come from somewhere.

This Social care plan,  

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/12703_19-Towards-the-National-Care-Service.pdf 

Fully costed and ready to go in 2019 while Boris was lying his head off and whittering about Brexit in order to win an election.

 

In any discussion about Social Care, how can this alternative idea be classed as 'an irrelevance.' Especially when people are questioning the entire current system as not fit for purpose.

It's so 'irrelevant' that it is being taken up by the SNP as a way forward for Scotland who may well adopt it.

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4 hours ago, Anna B said:

This Social care plan,  

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/12703_19-Towards-the-National-Care-Service.pdf 

Fully costed and ready to go in 2019 while Boris was lying his head off and whittering about Brexit in order to win an election.

 

In any discussion about Social Care, how can this alternative idea be classed as 'an irrelevance.' Especially when people are questioning the entire current system as not fit for purpose.

It's so 'irrelevant' that it is being taken up by the SNP as a way forward for Scotland who may well adopt it.

Is this the one that labour ditched last year due to being in feasible cost wise?
considering this is originally the one touted in 2010 it’s not ‘jeremys plan’ is it. 
 

it’s an irrelevance because

a) Corbyn is a single independent mp with no party backing so his opinion is worth 0.16% within the realms of HOP voting. He is no more important than Martin Bell used to be

b) The Labour Party have ditched this plan as it would cost way too much to implement 

 

I can’t see the costing for this in the plan. How much would it cost a year

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What gets me is that our beloved NHS came into being during a time of severest austerity and high debt following the colossal  expenditure of the second world war, because men of vision saw a need and made it happen.

 

We can afford whatever they say we can afford, be it bombs, wars, duckponds, HS2 or a new royal yacht etc. They do have a magic money tree as we saw during the pandemic for whatever vanity projects take their fancy. A carefully thought out care plan such as this will save the NHS money in the long run. Far cheaper than constantly shelling out to greedy privatised companies/cartels whose prices go ever upwards. The prices they charge the NHS are top dollar and ridiculous.

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Why don't they just cancel HS2 which will give them well over £100 billion to spend on the NHS without any tax rises.

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Here's a sobering thought & a reality check.  Just listening to a debate on the radio.

 

The planned spending for the Dept. Health & Social care in England was £212.1  billion in 2020/21 up from £150.4 billion in 2019/20.

 

Of these figures, approximately 45% goes on wages, of which, around half goes on wages of staff who aren't front line medical staff but are managers & consultants.

 

A bit of fat trimming  perhaps, to ensure that new money actually goes on medical care for patients, so that we see more bang for our bucks?

Edited by Baron99

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social care and welfare could be paid for quite easily by 2 things, cease all foreign aid especially to countries like india and pakistan, stop all illegal immigration at source i.e France although there seems to be some inroads there.

 

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OK I await and expect the angry replies.

I recently viewed an episode of ‘Escape To The Country’ where a married couple consisting of a couple of very young medics, one a NHS doctor, the other a NHS dentist. They were looking for something costing up to £1,500,000 whilst moving from something a lot less expensive. I wondered how much we pay young medics these days.

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9 minutes ago, crookesey said:

OK I await and expect the angry replies.

I recently viewed an episode of ‘Escape To The Country’ where a married couple consisting of a couple of very young medics, one a NHS doctor, the other a NHS dentist. They were looking for something costing up to £1,500,000 whilst moving from something a lot less expensive. I wondered how much we pay young medics these days.

for a start whats it got to do with their job?? maybe they had an inheritance or the price of their last home made a lot of money? even with only a 50% deposit am sure they are quite capable on decent salaries of prob circa 95k to 120k each , worth every penny i say.

 

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