Who Needs A Gun?

[cuttsie 1,090]

Why does any one apart from lets say a farmer to protect his stock need a gun , There are a million or so licensed guns in the UK , Why ????  . The guy in Plymouth who has just shot his mother and neighbours  lived in the middle of a City and it was obvious that there was (is) no justification to need or own a gun .

[El Cid 220]

According to the most recent figures(2010) for England and Wales, there are 138,728 people certificated to hold firearms and they own 435,383 weapons. There are 574,946 shotgun certificates which cover 1.4 million shotguns.

Statistics for Scotland show that 70,839 firearms were held by 26,072 certificate holders at the end of last year. Some 50,000 people in Scotland are certificated to hold shotguns - and 137,768 weapons are covered by that scheme.

Data on the total number of employed and self-employed farmers in the United Kingdom (UK) from 2011 to 2020 shows that there were 107 thousand farmers in some form of employment in the United Kingdom.

If the Police cannot vet gun holders properly, then all gun holders sould need insurance, in the event of a shootout the insurers would payout to those that are injured or the relatives of those killed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10220974

[Baron99 795]

49 minutes ago, cuttsie said:

Why does any one apart from lets say a farmer to protect his stock need a gun , There are a million or so licensed guns in the UK , Why ????  . The guy in Plymouth who has just shot his mother and neighbours  lived in the middle of a City and it was obvious that there was (is) no justification to need or own a gun .

My bold. 

 

Bona fide shooting clubs & their members.  Let's not forget that such sport is part of the Olympics & you can add vets to farmers. 

 

I'm with you on this one.  I can't understand the need for a firearm to be owned by anyone outside it being a requirement for their job.   If there are a million licenced firearms in tbe UK, there's probably about a tenth of that number unlicensed. 

 

Anyone who meets the criteria  & can show they can store the firearm in a secure place, can get a firearms licence, no matter where they live, that's the law.  It's that law, that needs to be reviewed & tightened up. 

 

As I understand stand it, the killer's licence was temporarily suspended due to an allegation of assault last December & was handed his licence back in July, presumably being cleared of the allegations by the authorities? 

 

The police once again, find themselves at the forefront of a story about the licence being returned.  They're damned if they do & they would probably been damned of they didn't.  They would probably have had a lawyer on their backs if they hadn't handed the licence back? 

 

At the end of the day, whether a firearm is licensed or unlicensed, no amount of legislation or checking of an individuals background, (including now calls for  their social media history to be checked), will stop an individual or a group, from carrying out a random attack.

 

We're just lucky in the UK that such events as this are extremely rare.  Maybe that's actually evidence that the licencing law Does actually work as it was a decade or so ago since the last killing by a LICENCED gun holder. 

 

Meanwhile, random knife attacks & murders are a daily occurance on our streets. 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Baron99

[geared 315]

16 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

The police once again, find themselves at the forefront of a story about the licence being returned.  They're damned if they do & they would probably been damned of they didn't.  They would probably have had a lawyer on their backs if they hadn't handed the licence back? 

 

 

Potentially, we obviously don't know enough about the allegation.

 

How many times do these cases get dropped due to 'lack of evidence' or simply because it's a bit too difficult to fully investigate so they bin it off?

[Baron99 795]

9 minutes ago, geared said:

Potentially, we obviously don't know enough about the allegation.

 

How many times do these cases get dropped due to 'lack of evidence' or simply because it's a bit too difficult to fully investigate so they bin it off?

Lack of evidence would ultimately be a Crown Prosecution issue not the police. 

 

No doubt the police & the media will be looking into this?  So we'll have to wait & see & not speculate? 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Baron99

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Why does any one apart from lets say a farmer to protect his stock need a gun , There are a million or so licensed guns in the UK , Why ????  . The guy in Plymouth who has just shot his mother and neighbours  lived in the middle of a City and it was obvious that there was (is) no justification to need or own a gun .

Unbelievable isn’t it.

 

if people want to use them for sport have them stored at approved shooting clubs etc.

 

zero need for anyone to have a gun otherwise.

 

[crookesey 635]

23 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Unbelievable isn’t it.

 

if people want to use them for sport have them stored at approved shooting clubs etc.

 

zero need for anyone to have a gun otherwise.

 

Oh that’s a great idea, dozens of weapons and probably ammunition  stored in the same place with most probably no person in attendance.

[horribleblob 213]

2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

... As I understand stand it, the killer's licence was temporarily suspended due to an allegation of assault last December & was handed his licence back in July, presumably being cleared of the allegations by the authorities? ...

An early radio report I heard said his gun and licence were returned to him after he'd attended and completed an anger management course.

[hauxwell 243]

2 hours ago, Baron99 said:

We're just lucky in the UK that such events as this are extremely rare.  Maybe that's actually evidence that the licencing law Does actually work as it was a decade or so ago since the last killing by a LICENCED gun holder. 

 

Meanwhile, random knife attacks & murders are a daily occurance on our streets. 

I agree with you about such events as the Plymouth shooting being extremely rare.  It’s something you don’t hear very often on the news so it tends to shock people when something so awful as this happens.

 

It’s knife crime which is more prevalent in large cities particularly London that worries me.  It doesn’t seem to shock anymore when you hear on the news that so many people were fatally stabbed overnight, it’s now part of everyday life.

 

 

 
 

[crookesey 635]

6 minutes ago, hauxwell said:

I agree with you about such events as the Plymouth shooting being extremely rare.  It’s something you don’t hear very often on the news so it tends to shock people when something so awful as this happens.

 

It’s knife crime which is more prevalent in large cities particularly London that worries me.  It doesn’t seem to shock anymore when you hear on the news that so many people were fatally stabbed overnight, it’s now part of everyday life.

 

 

 
 

You’re 100% correct on knife crime, there are areas of Sheffield that I wouldn’t visit in daylight hours, let alone at night.

[ab6262 202]

3 hours ago, cuttsie said:

Why does any one apart from lets say a farmer to protect his stock need a gun , There are a million or so licensed guns in the UK , Why ????  . The guy in Plymouth who has just shot his mother and neighbours  lived in the middle of a City and it was obvious that there was (is) no justification to need or own a gun .

the problem is when he was licensed for the shotgun and firearms he was probably not at risk there are obviously some circumstances that happend since that turned him into nut job?its one thats fallen through the net unfortunately? many people own shotguns for sport, game and clays me included and believe me the hoops that you have to jump through now are far stricter and there are far more checks and stringent searching questions, home inspections for storage are done, back ground checks , paperwork for each weapon. there is also a big industry around shooting and country sports.

[ab6262 202]

3 hours ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

Bona fide shooting clubs & their members.  Let's not forget that such sport is part of the Olympics & you can add vets to farmers. 

 

i'm with you on this one.  I can't understand the need for a firearm to be owned by anyone outside it being a requirement for their job.   If there are a million licenced firearms in tbe UK, there's probably about a tenth of that number unlicensed. 

 

Anyone who meets the criteria  & can show they can store the firearm in a secure place, can get a firearms licence, no matter where they live, that's the law.  It's that law, that needs to be reviewed & tightened up. 

 

As I understand stand it, the killer's licence was temporarily suspended due to an allegation of assault last December & was handed his licence back in July, presumably being cleared of the allegations by the authorities? 

 

The police once again, find themselves at the forefront of a story about the licence being returned.  They're damned if they do & they would probably been damned of they didn't.  They would probably have had a lawyer on their backs if they hadn't handed the licence back? 

 

At the end of the day, whether a firearm is licensed or unlicensed, no amount of legislation or checking of an individuals background, (including now calls for  their social media history to be checked), will stop an individual or a group, from carrying out a random attack.

 

We're just lucky in the UK that such events as this are extremely rare.  Maybe that's actually evidence that the licencing law Does actually work as it was a decade or so ago since the last killing by a LICENCED gun holder. 

 

Meanwhile, random knife attacks & murders are a daily occurance on our streets. 

 

 

i'm with you on this one.  I can't understand the need for a firearm to be owned by anyone outside it being a requirement for their job.   If there are a million licenced firearms in tbe UK, there's probably about a tenth of that number unlicensed. 

 

a shotgun licence is different to a firearms licence, the latter is much harder to get. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by ab6262