Waldo   96 #1 Posted July 15, 2021 Was just watching a report on the chaos of ticketless fans breaching security and gaining entry to Wembley at the Euro 2020 final, England against Italy.  Where was the army, water cannons, rubber bullets, seriously effective crowd control?  What was in place was wishy washy ineffectual crowd control, primary school kids would have been as effective.  To my mind, you absolutely can not have these idiots overpowering police and security, it’s totally inexcusable and asking for another Hillsborough disaster. You must control the crowd with an unrelenting iron grip, whatever it takes, because if you don’t, and the fans disregard your instructions and it results in deaths, then the authorities are to blame for those deaths.  If for whatever reason, you cannot be 100% in control of the crowd, the event should be cancelled. I also wonder if we should have an external body evaluate plans for crowd control, and if not sufficient, then they would have the power to stop the event from going ahead. Really don’t think the likes of Wembley and the FA can be trusted to make the right decisions in this regard.  Any thoughts? Agree, disagree? What should be done? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest makapaka   #2 Posted July 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, Waldo said: Was just watching a report on the chaos of ticketless fans breaching security and gaining entry to Wembley at the Euro 2020 final, England against Italy.  Where was the army, water cannons, rubber bullets, seriously effective crowd control?  What was in place was wishy washy ineffectual crowd control, primary school kids would have been as effective.  To my mind, you absolutely can not have these idiots overpowering police and security, it’s totally inexcusable and asking for another Hillsborough disaster. You must control the crowd with an unrelenting iron grip, whatever it takes, because if you don’t, and the fans disregard your instructions and it results in deaths, then the authorities are to blame for those deaths.  If for whatever reason, you cannot be 100% in control of the crowd, the event should be cancelled. I also wonder if we should have an external body evaluate plans for crowd control, and if not sufficient, then they would have the power to stop the event from going ahead. Really don’t think the likes of Wembley and the FA can be trusted to make the right decisions in this regard.  Any thoughts? Agree, disagree? What should be done? My thoughts are that people should stop constantly lurching to extreme positions in response to media reports. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Waldo   96 #3 Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, makapaka said: My thoughts are that people should stop constantly lurching to extreme positions in response to media reports. So just business as usual, hope we don’t get another Hillsborough? (as we are not in control of who and how many enter a stadium) Edited July 15, 2021 by Waldo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Baron99   775 #4 Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) As I understand it, there were no such things as 'security fences' that the media were going on about. By that description, you'd be imagining fencing at least 2m high linked together by those large concrete blocks. In reality, the 'security fences' were the bog standard fences about 1.5m high & were only being used to 'snake' the crowds in to Wembley in order that people could be checked for Covid vaccination details / test results.  I hear people on the news blaming the Wembley security & the police. What about simply blaming the drunken idiots for causing the problems in the first place? Edited July 15, 2021 by Baron99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest makapaka   #5 Posted July 15, 2021 16 minutes ago, Waldo said: So just business as usual, hope we don’t get another Hillsborough? (as we are not in control of who and how many enter a stadium) No - find out what happened - learn from it and address accordingly with more policing / stewards / measures where required. Bearing in mind also the circumstances surrounding that particular match are unlikely to reoccur on a regular basis.  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Delbow   686 #6 Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) According to one of the people who planned the Wembley shenanigans, a lot of the people without tickets just bribed the security guards with cash to get in. If you also consider the penny pinching corner cutting that made it easier for the Manchester arena bomber to go unchallenged (oh, and the G4S farce at the London Olympics), you might think the security industry was run by chancers. Edited July 15, 2021 by Delbow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
PRESLEY   1,222 #7 Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Waldo said: Was just watching a report on the chaos of ticketless fans breaching security and gaining entry to Wembley at the Euro 2020 final, England against Italy.  Where was the army, water cannons, rubber bullets, seriously effective crowd control?  What was in place was wishy washy ineffectual crowd control, primary school kids would have been as effective.  To my mind, you absolutely can not have these idiots overpowering police and security, it’s totally inexcusable and asking for another Hillsborough disaster. You must control the crowd with an unrelenting iron grip, whatever it takes, because if you don’t, and the fans disregard your instructions and it results in deaths, then the authorities are to blame for those deaths.  If for whatever reason, you cannot be 100% in control of the crowd, the event should be cancelled. I also wonder if we should have an external body evaluate plans for crowd control, and if not sufficient, then they would have the power to stop the event from going ahead. Really don’t think the likes of Wembley and the FA can be trusted to make the right decisions in this regard.  Any thoughts? Agree, disagree? What should be done? Army, water cannons, rubber bullets, why not get the S.A.S in and have done with it. Oh Dear!  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Waldo   96 #8 Posted July 15, 2021 1 minute ago, PRESLEY said: Army, water cannons, rubber bullets, why not get the S.A.S in and have done with it. Oh Dear!  I think you need to scale up the response to appropriately meet the threat and be in control of the morons. That clearly didn’t happen on Sunday night.  I think if the threat is sufficient that you’d consider the SAS to be an appropriate response, then clearly you would stop the event from going ahead at that point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Waldo   96 #9 Posted July 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Baron99 said: I hear people on the news blaming the Wembley security & the police. What about simply blaming the drunken idiots for causing the problems in the first place? I’m blaming the idiots.  However, I also blame the security in so far as it was woefully inadequate to keep control of the situation; maybe we should be asking why?  Why didn’t the authorities anticipate trouble, is no-one monitoring social media? Also, perhaps Wembley and the FA are more concerned with how profitable the event will be, and security is a secondary concern to them? If that’s the case, who is deciding if their proposed security measures are adequate to the task? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
PRESLEY   1,222 #10 Posted July 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Waldo said: I think you need to scale up the response to appropriately meet the threat and be in control of the morons. That clearly didn’t happen on Sunday night.  I think if the threat is sufficient that you’d consider the SAS to be an appropriate response, then clearly you would stop the event from going ahead at that point. I was just joking,  did you really think I meant get the S.A.S in for real,  anyhow you just can't put the Army on the streets, Marshall law and all that, in future the Police will be aware and ready incase this sort of thing becomes a trend at football grounds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Waldo   96 #11 Posted July 15, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PRESLEY said: I was just joking,  did you really think I meant get the S.A.S in for real,  anyhow you just can't put the Army on the streets, Marshall law and all that, in future the Police will be aware and ready incase this sort of thing becomes a trend at football grounds. My apologies sir, I really didn’t know if you’d be joking or not. Perhaps my uncertainty reflects my view of your mental capabilities. I mean, anyone who resorts to the use of emojis, you never know! Edited July 15, 2021 by Waldo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
PRESLEY   1,222 #12 Posted July 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, Waldo said: My apologies sir, I really didn’t know if you’d be joking or not. Perhaps my uncertainty reflects my view of your mental capabilities. I mean, anyone who resorts to the use of emojis, you never know! I used an emojis to clearly show I was joking but you didn't pick on that, that reflects my view of your mental capbilities, stop being mardy, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...