Israel-Palestine Conflict.

[trastrick 866]

30 minutes ago, butlers said:

What a swamp Isreali politics is .

 

 

Democracy really is a messy business.

 

But not as messy as the Hamas/Fatah interscine violence in the Palestinian Territories.

Not involving Israel, he death toll of Palestinians in that mess, is in the hundreds with thousands more injured.

 

See "Palestinian casualties of war" - Wiki

 

Here's what's really going on, an example:

 

"The 2009 Hamas political violence took place in the Gaza Strip during and after the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict. A series of violent acts, ranging from physical assaults, torture, and executions of Palestinians, suspected of collaboration with the Israel Defense Forces, as well as members of the Fatah political party, occurred" -Wiki 

 

There's another War going on there for the hearts and minds of the Palestinians, and it doesn't involve Israel.

 

Neither is Israel involved in the ongoing sectarians wars between Islamists across the Middle East in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan, Algeria, Lebanon, Chad, Sudan, Somalia. Eritrea, and Oman, where the killing, maiming and torture is the norm, for these people.

 

 

[Carbuncle 0]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

Neither is Israel involved in the ongoing sectarians wars between Islamists across the Middle East in Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Libya, Egypt, Syria, Afghanistan, Algeria, Lebanon, Chad, Sudan, Somalia. Eritrea, and Oman, where the killing, maiming and torture is the norm, for these people.

This kind of ignorant prejudice amongst those in power or in a sufficient proportion of the population gets people killed.

 

Remember the Iraq war? Do you remember how Bush advanced the argument that Al Qaeda (actual Islamists) were embedded in Iraq (secular nationalists under Saddam Hussein)? Should have been a complete non-starter of an argument because there was no way these two groups could cohabit. Then you have the Iraq war and comprehensively demonstrate how it is possible to take a country ruled by a monster and make it worse. Then suddenly in the anarchic free-for-all that followed there was space for Islamists (ISIS, Daesh or whatever you want to call it).

 

'These people' as you call them are our fellow human beings.

[trastrick 866]

1 hour ago, Carbuncle said:

This kind of ignorant prejudice amongst those in power or in a sufficient proportion of the population gets people killed.

 

Remember the Iraq war? Do you remember how Bush advanced the argument that Al Qaeda (actual Islamists) were embedded in Iraq (secular nationalists under Saddam Hussein)? Should have been a complete non-starter of an argument because there was no way these two groups could cohabit. Then you have the Iraq war and comprehensively demonstrate how it is possible to take a country ruled by a monster and make it worse. Then suddenly in the anarchic fcacksree-for-all that followed there was space for Islamists (ISIS, Daesh or whatever you want to call it).

 

'These people' as you call them are our fellow human beings.

The Iraq War was to kick out Saddam from their invasion of their Islamic cousins in Kuwait to seize their oil, remember? It was U.N. Coalition War. I remember quite a few Leftist politicians in Europe were supporters of Saddam. They needed the oil. 

 

Al Queda was plotting the 9/11 attacks in New York City, the Pentagon, and The White House, and was training those pilots,  under Clinton/Gore, long before anybody had ever heard of G.W. Bush.

 

I feel for all victims of war, but I have contempt for "those people" that are doing all the killing in the Middle East, and Israel doesn't even come close to their combined death toll of their own Islamic "brothers".

 

It's not PC these days, to point this out on Lady BBC, or the Leftist Guardian.

 

But  until the real problem, sectarian violence, is openly discussed, there can be no solution. As you admit, these groups cannot even cohabit with each other.

 

The previous U.S. Administration was on the right track, pointing out to them the benefits of co-operation,  and actually got UAE and Bahrain and Israel to sign peace agreements to do so.

 

But unfortunately anything Trump did was an anathema to to status quo swamp, and the  swamp won.

 

So on and on it goes!

 

History repeats.

 

As for your Islamic groups that could never cohabit, you make my point. There is strife between Islamic "groups" in just about every Islamic country.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by trastrick

[butlers 259]

You are never less than predictable  and  I enjoy your amusing replies

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, trastrick said:

The Iraq War was to kick out Saddam from their invasion of their Islamic cousins in Kuwait to seize their oil, remember? It was U.N. Coalition War. I remember quite a few Leftist politicians in Europe were supporters of Saddam. They needed the oil. 

 

Al Queda was plotting the 9/11 attacks in New York City, the Pentagon, and The White House, and was training those pilots,  under Clinton/Gore, long before anybody had ever heard of G.W. Bush.

 

I feel for all victims of war, but I have contempt for "those people" that are doing all the killing in the Middle East, and Israel doesn't even come close to their combined death toll of their own Islamic "brothers".

 

It's not PC these days, to point this out on Lady BBC, or the Leftist Guardian.

 

But  until the real problem, sectarian violence, is openly discussed, there can be no solution. As you admit, these groups cannot even cohabit with each other.

 

The previous U.S. Administration was on the right track, pointing out to them the benefits of co-operation,  and actually got UAE and Bahrain and Israel to sign peace agreements to do so.

 

But unfortunately anything Trump did was an anathema to to status quo swamp, and the  swamp won.

 

So on and on it goes!

 

History repeats.

 

As for your Islamic groups that could never cohabit, you make my point. There is strife between Islamic "groups" in just about every Islamic country.

 

 

You should get one of those raspberry awards they give out - nonsense made to entertain.

 

Clever how you've brushed aside major reasons for ME conflicts, that include colonial history, interventions from major powers, and economic and political development. 

 

Or how good ol 🇺🇸 armed Saddam when he was useful to them, then when it suited the USA, they went in to pillage the country on false pretences.

 

In the process created ISIS- who destabilised the ME even more.

 

Let's not forget Afghanistan- who asked USA of proof that Bin Laden had anything to do with 9/11.

That never materialised and, despite the hijackers all being Arab, good ol 🇺🇸decided to bomb Afghanistan - which allowed rebel groups to crop up hungry for control. 

 

...and this continues today. In fact,  most of what we see happening in ME has foreign policy to blame.

[Carbuncle 0]

2 hours ago, trastrick said:

As for your Islamic groups that could never cohabit, you make my point. There is strife between Islamic "groups" in just about every Islamic country.

You keep changing the words. First time round as I recall you talked about 'semitic tribes' (if I recall correctly) then it became 'islamists' now you are talking about 'islamic groups'. Are you searching for the statement that 'Muslims are just plain bad'? Is that what you are trying to say?

[trastrick 866]

And as long as you allow them to blame foreigners for their stone age barbarianism towards each other, rape, beheading and the rest, the mayhem will continue.

 

Middle East violence precedes the State of Israel, the colonial era and Trump, Lol

 

[butlers 259]

Saw a figure of 800,000 plus gave been killed in the " 9/11 " wars and the destruction of societies that followed.

 

 

[butlers 259]

The idea that Bahrain and Sudan signing "peace " agreements with Isreal is a notable step forward us risable.

 

 

[trastrick 866]

Just now, butlers said:

The idea that Bahrain and Sudan signing "peace " agreements with Isreal is a notable step forward us risable.

 

 

Didn't it get 2 Nobel Peace Prize Nominations?

Edited May 31, 2021 by trastrick

[trastrick 866]

37 minutes ago, Mr Fisk said:

You should get one of those raspberry awards they give out - nonsense made to entertain.

 

Clever how you've brushed aside major reasons for ME conflicts, that include colonial history, interventions from major powers, and economic and political development. 

 

Or how good ol 🇺🇸 armed Saddam when he was useful to them, then when it suited the USA, they went in to pillage the country on false pretences.

 

In the process created ISIS- who destabilised the ME even more.

 

Let's not forget Afghanistan- who asked USA of proof that Bin Laden had anything to do with 9/11.

That never materialised and, despite the hijackers all being Arab, good ol 🇺🇸decided to bomb Afghanistan - which allowed rebel groups to crop up hungry for control. 

 

...and this continues today. In fact,  most of what we see happening in ME has foreign policy to blame.

Lol

 

"Colonial" history to blame?

 

Who's?

 

Are you aware that The Islamic Caliphate was one on the biggest Empires ever known?  Bigger than the Roman Empire. From India to Spain it was spread, by force!

Edited May 31, 2021 by trastrick

[trastrick 866]

6 minutes ago, Carbuncle said:

You keep changing the words. First time round as I recall you talked about 'semitic tribes' (if I recall correctly) then it became 'islamists' now you are talking about 'islamic groups'. Are you searching for the statement that 'Muslims are just plain bad'? Is that what you are trying to say?

Well, it does get a little complicated.

 

Islam is broken down into many sects, some 30 of them, all with different names., according to WIKI. And at war with each other at any given time.

 

If I used all their different names, we'd be here all day.  Lol

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by trastrick