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28 minutes ago, S1 1DJ said:

No standing on high speed trains in Spain.  You have to book a seat, and if there is no spare seats, there is no tickets available

Compulsory seat reservations would not work or be acceptable in the UK.

Currently only Sleepers and some Christmas/New Year services have compulsory seat reservations.

 

Consider journeys between Sheffield and Chesterfield where there are four "inter city" services and two "regional trains" an hour.

During peak the "two regional" trains could not cope.

On all services day return, open return, season, rover, combined ticket holders who  often pay a lot more  have the freedom to choose  their return journey.

There are no facilities or workforce to control access to trains from open platforms.

 

The geography of countries like the UK means that unlike that "intercity" trains often become "local" trains eg Sheffield to Doncaster, to Leeds, to Manchester.

 

The current set up is not perfect but the solution is not compulsory seat reservations. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Compulsory seat reservations would not work or be acceptable in the UK.

Currently only Sleepers and some Christmas/New Year services have compulsory seat reservations.

 

Consider journeys between Sheffield and Chesterfield where there are four "inter city" services and two "regional trains" an hour.

During peak the "two regional" trains could not cope.

On all services day return, open return, season, rover, combined ticket holders who  often pay a lot more  have the freedom to choose  their return journey.

There are no facilities or workforce to control access to trains from open platforms.

 

The geography of countries like the UK means that unlike that "intercity" trains often become "local" trains eg Sheffield to Doncaster, to Leeds, to Manchester.

 

The current set up is not perfect but the solution is not compulsory seat reservations. 

 

Bolded bit - I have to have them on the SHF-STP leg of my journeys  to Brighton, and seem to remember, on certain other long-distance ones, too.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

Bolded bit - I have to have them on the SHF-STP leg of my journeys  to Brighton, and seem to remember, on certain other long-distance ones, too.

Anybody who has a valid ticket can board any train between Sheffield and St Pancras-it does not matter what their final destination or what time they are travelling. 

 

I predict you have bought Advance tickets which because they are cheap require reservations between Sheffield and London but you cannot reserve between London and Brighton. This is not the same as compulsory reservation for all passengers.

 

Anytime singles and returns are expensive and can be reserved if you want. 

Tickets Some ticket are only valid on certain trains at certain times, eg Savers, Super savers, Off peak, Super Off Peak etc. Reservations can be made.

Advance tickets are sold in limited quantities and prices and are valid only on a specific train and a compulsory reservation comes free. 

There are also Season tickets, Day rovers etc which allow you on the train at all/certain times.

 

On many trains you will see seats marked as reserved- when it is clear that nobody is using then- use them.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Annie Bynnol

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Compulsory seat reservations would not work or be acceptable in the UK.

Currently only Sleepers and some Christmas/New Year services have compulsory seat reservations.

 

Consider journeys between Sheffield and Chesterfield where there are four "inter city" services and two "regional trains" an hour.

During peak the "two regional" trains could not cope.

On all services day return, open return, season, rover, combined ticket holders who  often pay a lot more  have the freedom to choose  their return journey.

There are no facilities or workforce to control access to trains from open platforms.

 

The geography of countries like the UK means that unlike that "intercity" trains often become "local" trains eg Sheffield to Doncaster, to Leeds, to Manchester.

 

The current set up is not perfect but the solution is not compulsory seat reservations. 

 

Sorry this does not make sense. it is straight forward and would be simple. Of course it may mean you can not board the train you want but that is another issue.

 

No one is suggesting you can not travel on the inter city service from sheffield to Chesterfield just that you would have to make a reservation. IF the U.K. were to make reservations compulsory then they presumably ( a big assumption I know) make it possible to obtain the reservation at the station prior to boarding if spaces were free ( or via mobile). It is easily doable indeed I seem to recall 20+ years ago doing this on SNCF from a machine on the platform to be able to travel on the TGV.


on the whole where the inter city service is operating as a local train then standing is not usually a problem anyway and how many times have you had to stand between Sheffield and Chesterfield 

 
Sorry but this could easily be implemented in the U.K. of course it would cost a little bit and passengers would have to get used to it

Edited by Bigal1

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Anybody who has a valid ticket can board any train between Sheffield and St Pancras-it does not matter what their final destination or what time they are travelling. 

 

Anytime singles and returns are expensive and can be reserved if you want. 

Tickets Some ticket are only valid on certain trains at certain times, eg Savers, Super savers, Off peak, Super Off Peak etc. Reservations can be made.

Advance tickets are sold in limited quantities and prices and are valid only on a specific train and a compulsory reservation comes free. 

There are also Season tickets, Day rovers etc which allow you on the train at all/certain times.

 

On many trains you will see seats marked as reserved- when it is clear that nobody is using then- use them.

 

 

 

I never said anyone with a valid ticket couldn't board any train. What  I should have said was that I had to have a reservation on a specific train, as I always go OFF-peak Advance on those journeys as (a) I know when I am going and (b) I have no wish to pay more than I need to.. I also make a number of journeys where the decision is made at much shorter notice, and unless it is on a train I know, or expect, to be busy, I don't bother with reservations, but as you note above, mandatory, albeit free, seat reservation is required on Advance tickets.

 

FYI - I have been using trains as a means of travel regularly all over the country, and thanks to a friend of mine who is an ex-BR manager, I have learned a number of 'travel tricks' which most people don't know exist.

 

I am also aware of the many various versions of tickets, and use that most suitable for my intended journey.

Edited by RollingJ

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1 hour ago, RollingJ said:

I never said anyone with a valid ticket couldn't board any train. What  I should have said was that I had to have a reservation on a specific train, as I always go OFF-peak Advance on those journeys as (a) I know when I am going and (b) I have no wish to pay more than I need to.. I also make a number of journeys where the decision is made at much shorter notice, and unless it is on a train I know, or expect, to be busy, I don't bother with reservations, but as you note above, mandatory, albeit free, seat reservation is required on Advance tickets.

 

FYI - I have been using trains as a means of travel regularly all over the country, and thanks to a friend of mine who is an ex-BR manager, I have learned a number of 'travel tricks' which most people don't know exist.

 

I am also aware of the many various versions of tickets, and use that most suitable for my intended journey.

Off Peak and Advance are two very different types of ticket and in any case has nothing to do with the issue of  compulsory reservations being applied to long distance trains in the UK. and has been debated for decades.

So staying with compulsory reservations being applied to long distance trains in the UK-view that has a lot of support.

-the argument for is that you get a seat.

-the argument against is you don't get a train.

 

Much of the argument is exemplified by the situation on Cross Country trains between Derbyshire, South and West Yorkshire, where the needs of long distance travellers conflict with short distance travellers.

Short trains, short distances between stops, inadequate local services which cannot meet demand. With a very different geography, Italy, Spain, France or Germany  have always had different classes of train.

In the UK a walk up and on service has always been what the public wants.

 

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1 minute ago, Annie Bynnol said:

 

Off Peak and Advance are two very different types of ticket and in any case has nothing to do with the issue of  compulsory reservations being applied to long distance trains in the UK. and has been debated for decades.

So staying with compulsory reservations being applied to long distance trains in the UK-view that has a lot of support.

-the argument for is that you get a seat.

-the argument against is you don't get a train.

 

Much of the argument is exemplified by the situation on Cross Country trains between Derbyshire, South and West Yorkshire, where the needs of long distance travellers conflict with short distance travellers.

Short trains, short distances between stops, inadequate local services which cannot meet demand. With a very different geography, Italy, Spain, France or Germany  have always had different classes of train.

In the UK a walk up and on service has always been what the public wants.

 

If you want to be pedantic - I am very aware Off Peak and Advance are totally different ticket types, although the price of Advance tickets can vary depending on whether you travel in Peak or Off peak times, which was the point of my comment - i.e. unless I have to travel in peak periods, I intentionally choose not to do so, thus saving a bit of money and also avoiding crowded stations/trains.

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2 hours ago, Bigal1 said:

Sorry this does not make sense. it is straight forward and would be simple. Of course it may mean you can not board the train you want but that is another issue.

 

No one is suggesting you can not travel on the inter city service from sheffield to Chesterfield just that you would have to make a reservation. IF the U.K. were to make reservations compulsory then they presumably ( a big assumption I know) make it possible to obtain the reservation at the station prior to boarding if spaces were free ( or via mobile). It is easily doable indeed I seem to recall 20+ years ago doing this on SNCF from a machine on the platform to be able to travel on the TGV.


on the whole where the inter city service is operating as a local train then standing is not usually a problem anyway and how many times have you had to stand between Sheffield and Chesterfield 

 
Sorry but this could easily be implemented in the U.K. of course it would cost a little bit and passengers would have to get used to it

I would agree.

 

In fact it has already been proven during coronavirus times how easy it can be. LNER have  had a policy of mandatory reservations to join their intercity services which can be made as late as 5 minutes before departure.

 

Personally I feel it's what all of the the longer distance rail companies should have been doing and would welcome it going forward. As everybody gets on board they all have a place, they all know where they need to go and with the exception of extreme circumstances such as major disruption or special events there should be no need for or waves of people cluttering up the aiIsles and standing in corridors.

 

More companies adopted this procedure and the longer it became normality rail companies would then have real data as to what their passenger numbers are and would be more likely to push the government for funding into extra rolling stock. Let's face it, the longer we are silly enough to put up with being rammed into a corridor like sardines or literally sitting on the toilet because it's the only seat available the they will be inclined to change the status quo.

 

Of course there is always going to be the difficulty of mass commuter trains and city centre rapid transit systems but they should be the exemptions to such rules.  

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So.... the last EMR HST's have run... all we have left locally are the sets that Cross Country still have in service that regularly pass through Sheffield.

Meanwhile on the ECML, they've been bringing the Class 91's out of warm storage to cope with the Hitachi crisis.

 

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1F70 London St Pancras to Leeds due Sheffield 22:18 Platform 1.... the last HST to leave the Capital in revenue earning service.
Moments away.... 43102 leading 43274.

 

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5 minutes ago, darylslinn said:

1F70 London St Pancras to Leeds due Sheffield 22:18 Platform 1.... the last HST to leave the Capital in revenue earning service.
Moments away.... 43102 leading 43274.

 

...quickly followed by a 1E73 XC HST from Bristol to Leeds (according to Traksy) at 22.23 platform 5

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But not via the Capital...

 

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