May 6th 2021 Elections

[andyofborg 11]

On 03/04/2021 at 20:00, Anna B said:

Better than having just 9 Labour grandees (the Cabinet) and one Labour leader making all the decisions.

 

I suppose it depends on your definition of "better", I'm not convinced it will produce a better outcome for the citizens, but I do think it will be worth trying.  I doubt it will produce a worse outcome, unless they try really hard too. 

[andyofborg 11]

On 03/04/2021 at 22:26, Anna B said:

I know what you mean...🙄

But eventually I'm hoping all local councils will be made up of more independents (there's probably more chance of them being elected with new system) and less about simple political party affiliation. 

Anyway, the good of Sheffield and its inhabitants should be at the heart of any councillor worth his or her salt, and trump party loyalty. 

 

I'm intrigued why you think a collection of independents will be any better? 

 

Most independents are either fruit cakes, people so extreme none of the mainstream or even the fringe parties will touch them,  or single issue campaigners seeking to highlight their cause and have no idea about anything outside that. 

 

There are councils, like Frome which are an exception but they made a choice to behave essentially like a party and came up with some rules about how to interact with each other. 

 

The sucess of the Frome model says more about the quality of the people involved rather than their affiliation to a particular political party. 

 

[Anna B 1,414]

15 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

I'm intrigued why you think a collection of independents will be any better? 

 

Most independents are either fruit cakes, people so extreme none of the mainstream or even the fringe parties will touch them,  or single issue campaigners seeking to highlight their cause and have no idea about anything outside that. 

 

There are councils, like Frome which are an exception but they made a choice to behave essentially like a party and came up with some rules about how to interact with each other. 

 

The sucess of the Frome model says more about the quality of the people involved rather than their affiliation to a particular political party. 

 

I rather dislike the idea of important decisions being decided just on party lines. An authority of independents would surely be more likely to vote on ideas according to their merits don't you think? 

 

I also think at the moment Independent candidates have to work harder to get elected without the backing of a particular party, and tend to be very motivated. They are therefore the ideal sort of 'quality' people we want and need on the council. As for the 'nutjobs;' yes, a few might stand, but do people really vote for them in sufficient numbers to get them elected?

 

I haven't heard about Frome's success. I'll have to look into it.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Anna B

[Anna B 1,414]

5 hours ago, sheffbag said:

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/content/dam/sheffield/campaigns/governance-referendum/Proposed governance systems information.pdf

Where are you basing your view on Anna that it is percentage votes. The models indicate that 

"All 84 of Sheffield's councillors (known as Full Council) elect a Leader, but decision making authority continues to rest with Full Council, which will delegate most decision making to groups of councillors drawn from all of the political parties on the council (committees). Full Council makes appointments to these committees. Each committee is politically proportionate – this means that the largest party on the Full Council will have the most councillors in each committee." (source https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/home/campaigns/scc-governance-referendum)

 

The committees will still be made up of the elected councillors and will still be majority of the majority (Labour) party. I cant see anything based on percentage votes. If Labour have a majority of councillors then it will have a majority of councillors on each committee if im reading right

 

 

From the campaign literature I've received in the post, it seems Liberal Democrats are almost neck and neck with Labour. If this is true, then there's all to play for. I'd also like to see a few Greens in the mix.

 

I'm hoping the days of voting for candidates based on their party affiliation will soon be over, and we will start voting for candidates on their experience and personal merits. I have long been advocating all candidates should submit a proper CV like a job application so we get a better picture of who we're voting for. At the moment it's just a leaflet of generic party blurb, and in 'safe' seats it's not even that. I'd also like to go back to the traditional hustings and public meetings.

 

I also note none of the literature has mentioned the referendum vote, which is interesting don't you think? Anyone would think they didn't like the idea of sharing power.... The Labour council have had an easy ride for too long, to the point of unaccountability. At least the new system might shake them up sufficiently to jog them out of their complacency. They have taken the voters for granted for far too long.  

[El Cid 216]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

I'm hoping the days of voting for candidates based on their party affiliation will soon be over, and we will start voting for candidates on their experience and personal merits.

Not sure anything has changed to make that more likely. Even if you elect a really good person, what difference will one person make?

Johnson has made a big difference, but he only got there because he is a Conservative.

[RollingJ 2,026]

7 hours ago, El Cid said:

Not sure anything has changed to make that more likely. Even if you elect a really good person, what difference will one person make?

Johnson has made a big difference, but he only got there because he is a Conservative.

[Anna B 1,414]

12 hours ago, El Cid said:

Not sure anything has changed to make that more likely. Even if you elect a really good person, what difference will one person make?

Johnson has made a big difference, but he only got there because he is a Conservative.

The idea is to get all really good people, all wanting the best for Sheffield and knowing how to get it.

[nightrider 13]

16 hours ago, andyofborg said:

I'm intrigued why you think a collection of independents will be any better? 

 

Most independents are either fruit cakes, people so extreme none of the mainstream or even the fringe parties will touch them,  or single issue campaigners seeking to highlight their cause and have no idea about anything outside that. 

 

There are councils, like Frome which are an exception but they made a choice to behave essentially like a party and came up with some rules about how to interact with each other. 

 

The sucess of the Frome model says more about the quality of the people involved rather than their affiliation to a particular political party. 

 

Some of the labour councillors are fruitcakes though! Just look at one of the Walkley representatives who has used fake social media accounts to bully people for example....

15 hours ago, Anna B said:

From the campaign literature I've received in the post, it seems Liberal Democrats are almost neck and neck with Labour. If this is true, then there's all to play for. I'd also like to see a few Greens in the mix.

 

I'm hoping the days of voting for candidates based on their party affiliation will soon be over, and we will start voting for candidates on their experience and personal merits. I have long been advocating all candidates should submit a proper CV like a job application so we get a better picture of who we're voting for. At the moment it's just a leaflet of generic party blurb, and in 'safe' seats it's not even that. I'd also like to go back to the traditional hustings and public meetings.

 

I also note none of the literature has mentioned the referendum vote, which is interesting don't you think? Anyone would think they didn't like the idea of sharing power....

The official SCC documentation says that irrespective of what people vote for they will implement a "committee system". The problem is their system would not have any power.....but its clear the idea is to confuse voters to they vote to keep the current system on the grounds a "committee system" will be added anyway. Appalling behaviour to be honest. Other countries have laws about referendum material being clear, factual and impartial. We need that in this country too if we are going to keep having referendums.

[enntee 10]

22 minutes ago, nightrider said:

Some of the labour councillors are fruitcakes though! Just look at one of the Walkley representatives who has used fake social media accounts to bully people for example....

The official SCC documentation says that irrespective of what people vote for they will implement a "committee system". The problem is their system would not have any power.....but its clear the idea is to confuse voters to they vote to keep the current system on the grounds a "committee system" will be added anyway. Appalling behaviour to be honest. Other countries have laws about referendum material being clear, factual and impartial. We need that in this country too if we are going to keep having referendums.

This may be a reference to the proposed "Local Area Committees" which are being used to confuse the issue.

These are being touted as being some wonderful new proposal, but is in fact a resurrection of the old "Area Panels".
They should not be confused with the changes involved in the "Committee System Model" in the referendum.

 

 

SCC Governance Referendum (sheffield.gov.uk)

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by enntee

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

On 03/04/2021 at 15:46, whiteowl said:

Does anyone know whether it'll be 2 separate voting cards, one for the council elections and one for the referendum?

I assume it must.

 

Actually, there'll be three- also an election for the Police and Crime Commissioner.

Re the Referendum: see the "It's Our City" website at https://www.itsoursheffield.co.uk/

Edited April 7, 2021 by Jeffrey Shaw

[Anna B 1,414]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Actually, there'll be three- also an election for the Police and Crime Commissioner.

Re the Referendum: see the "It's Our City" website at https://www.itsoursheffield.co.uk/

Wow, well done to IOC (It's Our City,) in getting this far. using crowd funding etc. No doubt an awful lot of hard work has gone into it. I only hope the voters reward their efforts by getting behind them and voting for the new system. 

[El Cid 216]

15 hours ago, Jeffrey Shaw said:

Actually, there'll be three- also an election for the Police and Crime Commissioner.

Re the Referendum: see the "It's Our City" website at https://www.itsoursheffield.co.uk/

I read this week that the role of the Police and Crime Commissioner had been scrapped and the work will be done by by the newly elected Mayor.

The replacement of some PCCs with directly elected mayors is expected to occur as a result of the Cities and Local Government Devolution Act 2016. In 2017 the Greater Manchester Police and Crime Commissioner was replaced by the Mayor of Greater Manchester and the role of West Yorkshire Police and Crime Commissioner is expected to be absorbed by the mayor of West Yorkshire by 2024. In 2019 both the Metro Mayor of the Liverpool City Region and the Mayor of the West Midlands advocated taking over the police and crime commissioner roles in their respective areas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_and_crime_commissioner#Possible_abolition

Edited April 8, 2021 by El Cid