May 6th 2021 Elections

[ECCOnoob 1,020]

1 hour ago, Anna B said:

I think I have answered the question. 

The rich have money and influence to protect them,

the rest of us only have the power of the ballot box, such as it is. IMO it needs reform to make it more affective for more people.

 

 

No you haven't. As usual you keep referring to the same tired old generic responses.

 

You constantly use words like "the rich", "the powerful", "the influential", "the Bankers", "the corporations", but you never seem to give any actual descriptors of what falls under such categories. You never seem to give any actual context to why these terms are always so negative to the so-called "ordinary" working people.

 

To somebody ill or infirm receiving nothing but state benefits anyone with a full-time stable job would be deemed rich and powerful in comparison.... To somebody in a minimum wage unskilled level job, a qualified white collar professional working for some city practice earning £40k, £50k, £70k a year is deemed very rich and powerful in comparison. But they can hardly be falling into the definition of some elitist 1% could they??

 

There are plenty of so called blue-collar working-class tradesman, mechanics, fitters or engineers who are self-employed, small businesses or contractors who earn salary levels approaching the same white-collar qualified professional levels.

 

What about the waves of civil servants, management positions, heads of department, consultants, NHS Directors who are comfortably within the higher rate tax bracket.

 

What about all those waves of middle to upper-class homeowners. The ones who have have worked all their lives or may even still be working after a long and successful career. They may have the nice house at the right side of town, a couple of cars, several holidays a year and maybe for some even a little weekend place or holiday cottage abroad.. Do they fall into that elitist rich powerful 1% you keep speaking of?

 

What about our comparator on the global stage. Let's face it, for some poor Indian factory worker doing 12-hour shifts for pennies a day making goods to be sold in our stores which our population queues around the block to lap up at sale time.... our so-called poverty level 'disgrace'of a minimum wage will be seen as an absolute fortune.  Applying that comparator at least half of this population would fall within that elitist 1%.

 

The world has moved on from this boring and completely inaccurate political classification system.

 

This whole desperate attempt by politicians, particularly Labour, to appeal to this completely fabricated vote group fails every single time.

 

Reason: it doesn't exist.  The world has moved far beyond some simplistic black and white classification of the toffs vs everyone else.   

Edited April 15, 2021 by ECCOnoob

[Baron99 779]

56 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

No you haven't. As usual you keep referring to the same tired old generic responses.

 

You constantly use words like "the rich", "the powerful", "the influential", "the Bankers", "the corporations", but you never seem to give any actual descriptors of what falls under such categories. You never seem to give any actual context to why these terms are always so negative to the so-called "ordinary" working people.

 

To somebody ill or infirm receiving nothing but state benefits anyone with a full-time stable job would be deemed rich and powerful in comparison.... To somebody in a minimum wage unskilled level job, a qualified white collar professional working for some city practice earning £40k, £50k, £70k a year is deemed very rich and powerful in comparison. But they can hardly be falling into the definition of some elitist 1% could they??

 

There are plenty of so called blue-collar working-class tradesman, mechanics, fitters or engineers who are self-employed, small businesses or contractors who earn salary levels approaching the same white-collar qualified professional levels.

 

What about the waves of civil servants, management positions, heads of department, consultants, NHS Directors who are comfortably within the higher rate tax bracket.

 

What about all those waves of middle to upper-class homeowners. The ones who have have worked all their lives or may even still be working after a long and successful career. They may have the nice house at the right side of town a couple of cars, several holidays a year and maybe for some even a little weekend place holiday cottage abroad.. Do they fall into that elitist rich powerful 1% you keep speaking of?

 

What about our comparator on the global stage. Let's face it, for some poor Indian factory worker doing 12-hour shifts for pennies a day making goods to be sold in our stores which our population queues around the block to lap up at sale time.... our so-called poverty level 'disgrace'of a minimum wage will be seen as an absolute fortune.  Applying that comparator at least half of this population would fall within that elitist 1%.

 

The world has moved on from this boring and completely inaccurate political classification system.

 

This whole desperate by politicians, particularly Labour, to attempt to appeal to the completely fabricated vote group fails every single time.

 

Reason: it doesn't exist.  The world has moved far beyond some simplistic black and white classification of the toffs vs everyone else.   

My bold. 

 

A salary considered by some, doesn't even have to be in be in a good white collar job. 

 

Listening to a discussion this morning on the radio, regarding the cancellation & re-employment on new contracts of gas engineers by British Gas has been revealed that even under the new contracts, experienced engineers will earn a basic of £40,000 per annum. 

 

Many mid level IT jobs these days will attract a similar level of salary & a recent graduate to one of the big law or accountancy firms would probably see a starting salary of £30k to £35k.   Not bad for someone in their mid twenties. 

 

Of course, what links all the above salaries are that the jobs will be filled by applicants who have sacrificed a deal in the short-term by undertaking a considerable amount education in order to obtain the qualifications required to enter employment at such levels. 

 

Something probably not appreciated by some, who probably think these jobs have been handed to them on a plate.  And yes, the majority entering such jobs & receiving such salaries WON'T have been born with silver spoons in their mouths. 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Baron99

[Longcol 597]

1 hour ago, Baron99 said:

My bold. 

 

A salary considered by some, doesn't even have to be in be in a good white collar job. 

 

Listening to a discussion this morning on the radio, regarding the cancellation & re-employment on new contracts of gas engineers by British Gas has been revealed that even under the new contracts, experienced engineers will earn a basic of £40,000 per annum. 

 

Many mid level IT jobs these days will attract a similar level of salary & a recent graduate to one of the big law or accountancy firms would probably see a starting salary of £30k to £35k.   Not bad for someone in their mid twenties. 

 

Of course, what links all the above salaries are that the jobs will be filled by applicants who have sacrificed a deal in the short-term by undertaking a considerable amount education in order to obtain the qualifications required to enter employment at such levels. 

 

Something probably not appreciated by some, who probably think these jobs have been handed to them on a plate.  And yes, the majority entering such jobs & receiving such salaries WON'T have been born with silver spoons in their mouths. 

 

 

Not sure what exactly recent graduates in law and accountancy firms have "sacrificed" compared to graduates entering other professions that are less well paid.

[Guest makapaka]

I’ve voted Labour all my life.

 

I will be voting Green.

 

I would never vote for the conservatives who are a disgrace.

 

I can’t vote for Labour cos they pose no meaningful opposition anymore.

 

At a local level the Greens could be effective where I live. 
 

 whilst i don’t think our electoral system could ever allow them to form a government hopefully support for them could change the mood and get

us out of this massive hole we’re in as a society.

 

 

[whiteowl 54]

11 minutes ago, makapaka said:

I’ve voted Labour all my life.

 

I will be voting Green.

 

I would never vote for the conservatives who are a disgrace.

 

I can’t vote for Labour cos they pose no meaningful opposition anymore.

 

At a local level the Greens could be effective where I live. 
 

 whilst i don’t think our electoral system could ever allow them to form a government hopefully support for them could change the mood and get

us out of this massislow ve hole we’re in as a society.

 

 

I agree, at a local election you vote, well, local.

 

I'm in the Graves ward who generally votes Lib Dems. I will be voting for them again as they seem to be the only effective opposition to the slow sell off of Graves Park by the Labour council.

 

People who vote in local elections on national issues confuse me 🤷‍♀️

[Guest makapaka]

8 minutes ago, whiteowl said:

I agree, at a local election you vote, well, local.

 

I'm in the Graves ward who generally votes Lib Dems. I will be voting for them again as they seem to be the only effective opposition to the slow sell off of Graves Park by the Labour council.

 

People who vote in local elections on national issues confuse me 🤷‍♀️

Yeah - previously I’ve been so staunch for Labour in any election just cos the more the party represents the more influence and momentum it can gain.

 

Labour movement at the moment is so benign it’s not worth it.

[ECCOnoob 1,020]

1 hour ago, whiteowl said:

 

People who vote in local elections on national issues confuse me 🤷‍♀️

I completely agree. It's just tribal mentality.

[Anna B 1,401]

 

5 hours ago, whiteowl said:

I agree, at a local election you vote, well, local.

 

I'm in the Graves ward who generally votes Lib Dems. I will be voting for them again as they seem to be the only effective opposition to the slow sell off of Graves Park by the Labour council.

 

People who vote in local elections on national issues confuse me 🤷‍♀️

I agree, but then again, can you tell me what the differences are between the local parties. They all seem to say they're wanting the same things.

[andyofborg 11]

2 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

I agree, but then again, can you tell me what the differences are between the local parties. They all seem to say they're wanting the same things.

Is that surprising, or a particularly bad thing?

 

The over centralisation of control in westminster means local govenment can actually do very little which will have a significant impact on their citizens lives. They certainly can't do much to change the things you constantly rail against. I'm sure you will correct me, but I don't recall St, Jeremy offering the extensive decentralisation of power which is needed to rejuvinate government both local and national. 

 

[apelike 10]

16 hours ago, Anna B said:

I think I have answered the question. 

Not really. All you have done is confirm that you do not follow the status quo of being ordinary and not wanting change, which therefore means you are not one of the 99% you call ordinary. Do you think Corbyn was ordinary? 

 

3 hours ago, andyofborg said:

The over centralisation of control in westminster means local govenment can actually do very little which will have a significant impact on their citizens lives. They certainly can't do much to change the things you constantly rail against.

Quite, something I have mentioned myself and the reason why I think local authorities should be politically neutral.

Edited April 16, 2021 by apelike

[El Cid 214]

12 hours ago, makapaka said:

At a local level the Greens could be effective where I live. 
 

 whilst i don’t think our electoral system could ever allow them to form a government hopefully support for them could change the mood and get us out of this massive hole we’re in as a society.

At local level and national, we have a first past the post voting system. Even if you manage to elect a Green, they will not control the council. If you are lucky you could get a coalision, but unlikely.

[Baron99 779]

9 hours ago, Anna B said:

 

I agree, but then again, can you tell me what the differences are between the local parties. They all seem to say they're wanting the same things.

Well could the local Labour Party claim to be 'green' after the Amey tree felling debacle; having to admit their mistakes etc; misleading the electorate, etc?  Lying in layman's terms. 

 

I don't think so.  So there's one difference. 

 

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/watchdog-satisfied-sheffield-councils-response-damning-tree-felling-report-3120795

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Baron99